Dendroboard banner

21 - 40 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
I really do encourage people to hop back to that caudata thread for details about the law and the hobbyists' approach. On the forum, there has been wide agreement that everyone is on board with an end to international, WC imports, which helps make an argument (we agree with you... this is a great idea... but...).

The document does estimate the monetary impact - sales/job loss from stores and private breeders - but John Clare is trying to tabulate more accurate information through anonymous polling, etc.

I would also emphasize that, whatever anyone writes, remember that it will be read by laypeople. The audience will be politicians and paper pushers more often than scientists or specialists, so keep it simple (not stupid... just light on the jargon).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Groundhog

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,312 Posts
I wonder if Ed, or others with biological or zoological backgrounds, could comment and answer the questions that they listed, and provide a detailed counterargument to this ban? I left a comment, but I understand that I have my own limitations in providing the best information, so maybe others could jump in and help?
I'm not sure of the usefulness of that approach as it could quite easily morph into a form letter which is often taken much less seriously.

If Bsal is not in the USA, then restricting native species is of no value in preventing its spread. If its not here, it can't be spread. Furthermore the banning of interstate trade (unlike banning imports) does not do anything to prevent the establishment and transmission of Bsal in the USA. The reason for this is if that like some other diseases, Bsal can probably be easily transported by water movement (such as rivers/streams) and like Bd it may be able to be transported on the feet of water fowl. This is why a interstate ban (particularly on native species) does nothing to prevent its spread while enabling open trade does help prevent it as collections can be proven to be free by a simple sampling procedure similar to the process for disease surveillance for poultry farms (X number of animals have to tested in an enclosure).

Second a PCR test can easily be used to determine the status of cb animals and prevent its transmission by enabling treatment and clearance if found. This would enable two things to happen, the first is the clearance of any potential risks in the USA as it stands with animals currently in the states. The second is that prevents trade from going underground and this promotes the prevention of Bsal's establishment in the USA as it enables open trade in captive bred animals.

Third the hobby is going to have shoulder some of the responsibility by promoting the disinfection/sterilization of waste water and responsible disposal of solids.

Fourth: The hobby should become very intolerant of smuggled animals as these by definition have bypassed the testing process and as a result puts the entire hobby at risk.

Some comments

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,312 Posts
George;

It is a fungus and not a virus.

Requiring/requesting that zoos and veterinary labs develop a test really doesn't help the argument. There is already a test which is how they determined that caudates carried it. See for example Duplex Real-Time PCR for Rapid Simultaneous Detection of Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis and Batrachochytrium salamandrivorans in Amphibian Samples
Martel, An, et al. "Batrachochytrium salamandrivorans sp. nov. causes lethal chytridiomycosis in amphibians." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 110.38 (2013): 15325-15329.

The problem is to get the test widely available, get it accepted as a method to allow interstate trade, and for the hobby to get people to actually utilize it. To keep the interstate trade, as I noted above is going to require the hobby stepping up to the plate on some issues.

And I would suggest that people read that article is because it was discovered because it drove at least one population close to extinction.


Some comments

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,149 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
Oops, thanks for catching that, Ed (I had just been reading about ebola and its supposed elimination!)

I am aware that the test exists, that I why I used "implement," not develop. How would you suggest phrasing it? Maybe suggest that private hobbyists will agree to mandatory testing? (When you say "step up," do you mean we will have to bite the bullet and pay for it? That seems sensible, I don't see an alternative.)

The only point I am attempting to make is, if the fungus is not here, then there should be no danger in transporting tested stock.

George;

It is a fungus and not a virus.

Requiring/requesting that zoos and veterinary labs develop a test really doesn't help the argument. There is already a test which is how they determined that caudates carried it. See for example Duplex Real-Time PCR for Rapid Simultaneous Detection of Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis and Batrachochytrium salamandrivorans in Amphibian Samples
Martel, An, et al. "Batrachochytrium salamandrivorans sp. nov. causes lethal chytridiomycosis in amphibians." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 110.38 (2013): 15325-15329.

The problem is to get the test widely available, get it accepted as a method to allow interstate trade, and for the hobby to get people to actually utilize it. To keep the interstate trade, as I noted above is going to require the hobby stepping up to the plate on some issues.

And I would suggest that people read that article is because it was discovered because it drove at least one population close to extinction.


Some comments

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
99 Posts
The only point I am attempting to make is, if the fungus is not here, then there should be no danger in transporting tested stock.
If the fungus is not here there is also no danger in transporting untested domestic stock as well.

To add to Ed's comments An import ban but not an interstate transport ban would also decrease some of the economic impact of the ban, while still preserving all of the intended protection.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,149 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Fish & Wildlife will never accept this--and this ain't a logic class. Bear in mind, The FWS is empowered to enforce the Lacey Act, it is their call. We are going to have to test to prove that the fungus is not in any our collections. Alas, the burden of proof will be on us.

If the fungus is not here there is also no danger in transporting untested domestic stock as well.

To add to Ed's comments An import ban but not an interstate transport ban would also decrease some of the economic impact of the ban, while still preserving all of the intended protection.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,312 Posts
I am aware that the test exists, that I why I used "implement," not develop. How would you suggest phrasing it? Maybe suggest that private hobbyists will agree to mandatory testing?
Testing will be probably be required if they are going to permit interstate transport.

(When you say "step up," do you mean we will have to bite the bullet and pay for it? That seems sensible, I don't see an alternative.)
That is part of it. By step up I mean that they are going to have to address the ban in clear and reasonable manner and that they are going to have to own the problems that could enable this fungus to be a problem. Its pretty clear that the steps needed to prevent this from ever becoming an issue are simple (bleaching waste water, double bagging solids and disposing into the appropriate waste stream) but realistically how many are going to take those steps and demonstrate they are willing to take those steps?
How many are going to be willing to verify and certify that their animals are Bsal negative instead of just sneaking them over a border from a show to meet? All it is going to take to ruin any progress the hobby makes is for these sorts of things to become directly visible.

The only point I am attempting to make is, if the fungus is not here, then there should be no danger in transporting tested stock.
This needs to be made more clear in your post then, drop the reference to the vet and zoo and simply state that there is no risk to transport tested negative cb animals and denying the ability to conduct sales denies a legitimate method to defray costs and legitimate earnings.

The following doesn't directly apply to you George but I think it still needs to be said.

The earning part may not fly real well because how many people who sell frogs, salamanders etc at shows, meets or even online are declaring that money as income for tax purposes? Its hard to prove sales if people don't declare them and demand to remain anonymous with respect to their earnings.

Yes I'm a little cynical but at least a few of the barriers to getting the hobby's voice heard have been hurt by how the hobby itself behaves (the tax thing above is one example) so to some extent people shouldn't be surprised at these kinds of actions.

Once again I'm going to stress something; if you are eligible to vote register and vote, and write to your representative about the issue (or call). A mailed complaint to your representative and/or follow up phone call will carry far far more weight than any number of e-mails or online petitions.

some comments

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,149 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
No, not cynical--you are being realistic, which is what we need.

I want to reiterate what Ed says here: If it is one thing elected representatives respond to, it is voters/taxpayers. State your concern in a mature, lucid way and it will be listened to.

Bear in mind, as was stated in another post, these folks are not biologists. Complaints about vectors and taxonomic accuracy will not accomplish anything. Keep it clear and polite.

Yes I'm a little cynical but at least a few of the barriers to getting the hobby's voice heard have been hurt by how the hobby itself behaves (the tax thing above is one example) so to some extent people shouldn't be surprised at these kinds of actions.

Once again I'm going to stress something; if you are eligible to vote register and vote, and write to your representative about the issue (or call). A mailed complaint to your representative and/or follow up phone call will carry far far more weight than any number of e-mails or online petitions.

some comments

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
623 Posts
One thing which I think is very important but has not been mentioned is that all actions here presuppose that Bsal is NOT here in the US. This makes perfect sense because there are no current positives in the country, so we want to prevent those from occurring.

Unfortunately, I would be surprised if this is not already present in the US in some fashion.

I still think that allowing interstate trade via animals that test negative will help prevent the spread because, as Ed said, it will keep a larger portion of trade 'above the table' so to speak. That said, I don't think it is sufficient, Bd for example can test negative. Whole collections will need to be routinely tested, on the annual or biannual basis to insure we aren't endangering our native fauna.

This all largely ignores that these measures are likely to be self-policing. Who is to say that individuals are being honest in their swabbing? Or storing swabs correctly? Part of the issue will be convincing legislators that the hobby can properly do this, and unfortunately our collective history of smuggling, deceit, and ignoring national and international laws are not in our favor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,312 Posts
This all largely ignores that these measures are likely to be self-policing. Who is to say that individuals are being honest in their swabbing? Or storing swabs correctly? Part of the issue will be convincing legislators that the hobby can properly do this, and unfortunately our collective history of smuggling, deceit, and ignoring national and international laws are not in our favor.
Actually a health certificate is the route to deal with all of those issues. See the discussion below.

This is not a new scenario for the hobby. I just don't think a lot of people paid attention the last time this emergency ban on the hobby happened. It happened back in 2000 due to Heartwater disease risks from ticks on certain tortoises imported from Africa. The initial ban prohibited the exact same thing, banned imports, and interstate trade. Subsequent to the comment period those totoises in the US had to be accompanied by a health certificate by an accredited veterinarian.

The original emergency ban on those tortoises from https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2000-03-22/html/00-7014.htm
In addition, we are amending the interstate movement regulations to prohibit, until further notice, the interstate movement of all species and subspecies of these land tortoises. These actions are necessary because these tortoises, which are regularly imported into the United States and are common in the U.S. pet trade, have been found to harbor the tropical bont tick (Amblyomma variegatum), the African tortoise tick (Amblyomma marmoreum), and ticks of the species Amblyomma sparsum. All of these exotic ticks are known to be vectors of heartwater disease. Heartwater disease is an acute infectious disease of ruminants, including cattle, sheep, goats, white-tailed deer, and antelope. This disease has a 60 percent or greater mortality rate in livestock and a 90 percent or greater mortality rate in white-tailed deer.
I would really suggest reading the amendment as it is pretty much exactly what many in the hobby are proposing to enable the interstate movement of the animals.

Modification to the rule from https://www.federalregister.gov/art...interstate-movement-of-certain-land-tortoises

The second interim rule amended the regulations by allowing the interstate movement of these land tortoises if they were accompanied by a health certificate signed by a Federal or accredited veterinarian stating that the tortoises have been examined by that veterinarian and found free of ticks. This document amends the second interim rule by allowing that certificate to be either a health certificate or a certificate of veterinary inspection and by providing that only an accredited veterinarian may sign the certificate. This action is necessary to enable the export, interstate commerce, health care, and adoption of these types of tortoises while providing protection against the spread of exotic ticks known to be vectors of heartwater disease. This action will also relieve an unnecessary burden on Federal veterinarians.
The USFW felt that this was as a reasonable compromise (read the whole issue from the link above) and trade within the US was then resumed with a health certificate. The health certificate part deals with all of the issues about honesty and how its managed.

Some comments

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
I'm not sure why folks are focusing solely on the federal register notice? That literally is just the Service's public notice of the proposal. Most of the info behind the proposal including the analysis is on the Service's web page. Including a question and answer section, section 7 consultation, NEPA analysis, and an economic analysis. Injurious Wildlife: Listing Salamanders as Injurious Due to Risk of Salamander Chytrid Fungus

The Service doesn't ignore anyone's comment, not allowed to. The Service includes all of them as long as they were submitted within the comment period (and typically even afterwards if they are at least post marked by the date - but that's not an automatic - legally the Service doesn't have to but often will). The Service also doesn't "weight" comments. Many times people direct their comments as complaints. That's not the purpose of the comment period. The public comment period is to notify the public what the Service is proposing to do and why. Then to solicit comments regarding the merits of the proposal. Explaining why there should be modifications to the proposal and why (backed up with science) and suggestions to what modifications should be made are most helpful. The Service is also looking (usually) for additional information we might not have been aware of.

Complaining to congressionals is a lose lose for everyone and the species. All that does is turn what should be a biological decision into a political one.

The Service didn't respond fast enough (maybe nothing would have been fast enough) to white nose syndrome in bats and millions of native bats have died which has forced the Service to list as threatened/endangered more bat species, which in turn causes more regulatory oversight and control.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,149 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
Here is my final draft of my comments for the U. S. FWS comment period regarding the federal ban on importation and interstate transport of 201 salamander species effective 1/28/2016. Thanks to Ed Kowalski for pointing out the relevant federal statutes and rules.


RE: FWS-HQ-FAC-2015-0005

To whom it may concern:

My name is George Axiotakis, an educator and serious hobbyist in New York. I am writing to offer my comments on

FWS-HQ-FAC-2015-0005, the proposal to ban importation and interstate transport of 201 salamander species due to the possibility of Bsal contamination. It is my understanding that the Lacey Act entails a ban on importation and interstate transport. After correspondence and discussion with other private hobbyists and professionals, many of us believe the following steps can accomplish what the ban seeks to do. To be clear, we do not object to the importation ban; in fact, we approve of the importation ban as the best way to protect our pets and native populations, as there is no evidence to date of Bsal in North America. But we do find the ban on interstate transport to be problematic, unnecessary and potentially injurious to businesses, herpetologists and some of the listed salamander species.


The following suggestions specifically address questions 5 and 6 in the Agency's request for comments:


1) We strongly suggest testing protocols be implemented for extant captive collections. Businesses will undergo periodic testing, as the PCR assay can easily detect the presence of the Bsal fungus. Collections that test clean would receive appropriate certification for interstate transport. As a model, see Rule 7/17/2001 by the U. S. Dept. of Agriculture Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service allowing for "the interstate movement of certain land tortoises." In that case, interstate movement was allowed if animals were "accompanied by a health certificate signed by a Federal or accredited veterinarian..." https://www.federalregister.gov/art...interstate-movement-of-certain-land-tortoises

2) Be aware that serious goals of researchers and private hobbyists include education and conservation. These are not "play with" pets, rather we use them in classrooms to teach evolution and biodiversity. In addition, several of the listed species are threatened by climate change and human encroachment, and captive breeding of these animals ensures that there will be some viable populations;

3) We believe that the best way to ensure that only safe specimens are being kept and traded is to allow professional and private keepers to keep open, detailed records, thus eliminating any potential for a black market.

I thank the Agency for its consideration of these comments.


Sincerely,


George Axiotakis
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
I think most of the letter is fine. But to better address your concerns, the Service is going to need to understand why what you said in the last sentence of your first paragraph is an issue for you. I recommend explaining why you think the current proposal is a problematic to you. I would leave other people/entities out (for example to businesses, unless you are a business, or herpetologists, unless you are a herpetologist, etc. let those people speak for themselves - really explain why the proposal impacts you personally) of the letter since the Service can't tell whether you actually talked to those people or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
533 Posts
So quick question.

If possession isn't illegal, but interstate trade is, except we don't have checkpoints on roads between states, nor can a package be opened (legally) without a court order that is traveling between states...

How much money are they going to dump into sting operations to get the hobbyist in trouble?

Maybe I'm the narcissistic type when it comes to this stuff, but proof of where the salamander came from is tough. As far as businesses, I understand that.

Maybe a presidential candidate will campaign about rights to own and trade animals, opposed to the other topics at hand.

I'd sure love to talk to the law makers who signed this into law...

Ps. This does not affect AZA accredited facilities, right?

-Andrew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,312 Posts
So quick question.

If possession isn't illegal, but interstate trade is, except we don't have checkpoints on roads between states, nor can a package be opened (legally) without a court order that is traveling between states...

How much money are they going to dump into sting operations to get the hobbyist in trouble?

Maybe I'm the narcissistic type when it comes to this stuff, but proof of where the salamander came from is tough. As far as businesses, I understand that.

Maybe a presidential candidate will campaign about rights to own and trade animals, opposed to the other topics at hand.

I'd sure love to talk to the law makers who signed this into law...

Ps. This does not affect AZA accredited facilities, right?

-Andrew
It wasn't a law maker. It is a process that is within the jurisdiction of USFW.

Yes it affects zoos. They will have to get a permit to transport the caudates across state lines which due to AZA regs will require a health certificate. Keep in mind that zoos aren't going to want any form of chytrid to be left in the collection so they will test, treat and eliminate infection in collection animals or animals in quarantine.

I have to admit that the undertone in your post is that we should just ignore it and tacitly sanction illegal cross border traffic is an issue in my opinion. Do you really consider it acceptable to put a country's entire caudate population at risk just so someone can have x newt or y salamander? Keep in mind that it would have been much harder for this fungus to establish itself in unadapted populations without the pet trade ... We as the hobby have to shoulder some of the solution as opposed to simply arguing that it should be ignored.

some comments

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
So quick question.

If possession isn't illegal, but interstate trade is, except we don't have checkpoints on roads between states, nor can a package be opened (legally) without a court order that is traveling between states...

How much money are they going to dump into sting operations to get the hobbyist in trouble?

Maybe I'm the narcissistic type when it comes to this stuff, but proof of where the salamander came from is tough. As far as businesses, I understand that.

Maybe a presidential candidate will campaign about rights to own and trade animals, opposed to the other topics at hand.

I'd sure love to talk to the law makers who signed this into law...

Ps. This does not affect AZA accredited facilities, right?

-Andrew
I'm concerned that you didn't read any of the material, yet your asking question about it? Perhaps you should read the materials and see if they cover your questions? I agree with Ed (perhaps one of the few times :p ) your post has a definite undertone of simply ignoring the PROPOSED rule. I surely hope that's not what you mean. Just a fyi on American government - laws are only proposed by Congress and signed by the President. The Service isn't either of those.

Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,180 Posts
To make it easier for anyone interested in identifying the species these regulations affect:

The species are:
(1) Chioglossa lusitanica (golden striped salamander).
(2) Cynops chenggongensis (Chenggong fire-bellied newt).
(3) Cynops cyanurus (blue-tailed fire-bellied newt).
(4) Cynops ensicauda (sword-tailed newt).
(5) Cynops fudingensis (Fuding fire-bellied newt).
(6) Cynops glaucus (bluish grey newt, Huilan Rongyuan).
(7) Cynops orientalis (Oriental fire belly newt, Oriental fire-bellied newt).
(8) Cynops orphicus (no common name).
(9) Cynops pyrrhogaster (Japanese newt, Japanese fire-bellied newt).
(10) Cynops wolterstorffi (Kunming Lake newt).
(11) Euproctus montanus (Corsican brook salamander).
(12) Euproctus platycephalus (Sardinian brook salamander).
(13) Hydromantes ambrosii (Ambrosi salamander).
(14) Hydromantes brunus (limestone salamander).
(15) Hydromantes flavus (Mount Albo cave salamander).
(16) Hydromantes genei (Sardinian cave salamander).
(17) Hydromantes imperialis (imperial cave salamander).
(18) Hydromantes italicus (Italian cave salamander).
(19) Hydromantes platycephalus (Mount Lyell salamander).
(20) Hydromantes sarrabusensis (no common name).
(21) Hydromantes shastae (Shasta salamander).
(22) Hydromantes strinatii or Speleomantes strinatii (French cave salamander, Strinati’s cave salamander).
2
(23) Hydromantes supramontis (Supramonte cave salamander).
(24) Hynobius abei (Abe’s salamander).
(25) Hynobius amakusaensis (Amakusa-sanshouo).
(26) Hynobius amjiensis (Anji salamander).
(27) Hynobius arisanensis (Arisan hynobid).
(28) Hynobius boulengeri (Odaigahara salamander).
(29) Hynobius chinensis (Chinese salamander).
(30) Hynobius dunni (Oita salamander).
(31) Hynobius formosanus (Taiwan salamander).
(32) Hynobius fucus or Hynobius fuca (Taiwan lesser salamander).
(33) Hynobius glacialis (Nanhu salamander).
(34) Hynobius guabangshanensis (no common name).
(35) Hynobius hidamontanus (Hakuba salamander).
(36) Hynobius hirosei (no common name).
(37) Hynobius katoi (Akaishi sansho-uo).
(38) Hynobius kimurae (Hida salamander).
(39) Hynobius leechii (northeastern China hynobiid salamander).
(40) Hynobius lichenatus (northeast salamander).
(41) Hynobius maoershanensis (no common name).
(42) Hynobius naevius (blotched salamander).
(43) Hynobius nebulosus (misty salamander).
(44) Hynobius nigrescens (black salamander).
(45) Hynobius okiensis (Oki salamander).
(46) Hynobius osumiensis (Osumi-sanshouo).
(47) Hynobius quelpaertensis (no common name).
(48) Hynobius retardatus (Hokkaido salamander).
(49) Hynobius shinichisatoi (Sobo-sanshouo).
(50) Hynobius sonani (Sonan’s hynobiid).
(51) Hynobius stejnegeri (Bekko Sansho-uo).
(52) Hynobius takedai (Hokuriku Sansho-uo).
(53) Hynobius tokyoensis (Tokyo salamander).
(54) Hynobius tsuensis (Tsushima Sansho-uo).
(55) Hynobius turkestanicus (Turkestanian salamander).
(56) Hynobius yangi (no common name).
(57) Hynobius yatsui (no common name).
(58) Hynobius yiwuensis (Yiwu hynobiid).
(59) Ichthyosaura alpestris (alpine newt).
(60) Lissotriton boscai (Bosca’s newt).
(61) Lissotriton helveticus (palmate newt).
(62) Lissotriton italicus (Italian newt).
(63) Lissotriton kosswigi (Triton pontue de Kosswig).
(64) Lissotriton lantzi (no common name).
(65) Lissotriton montandoni (Carpathian newt).
(66) Lissotriton vulgaris (smooth newt).
(67) Neurergus crocatus (no common name).
(68) Neurergus derjugini or Neurergus microspilotus (Kurdistan newt).
3
(69) Neurergus kaiseri (Lorestan newt, Luristan newt, emperor spotted newt, Zagros newt, Iranian harlequin newt, kaiser newt).
(70) Neurergus strauchii (no common name).
(71) Notophthalmus meridionalis (black-spotted newt).
(72) Notophthalmus perstriatus (striped newt).
(73) Notophthalmus viridescens (eastern newt).
(74) Onychodactylus fischeri (long-tailed clawed salamander).
(75) Onychodactylus fuscus (Tadami clawed salamander).
(76) Onychodactylus intermedius (Bandai clawed salamander).
(77) Onychodactylus japonicus (Japanese clawed salamander).
(78) Onychodactylus kinneburi (Shikoku clawed salamander).
(79) Onychodactylus koreanus (Korai-Sansyouo).
(80) Onychodactylus nipponoborealis (Riben Bei Zhaoni).
(81) Onychodactylus tsukubaensis (Tsukuba clawed salamander).
(82) Onychodactylus zhangyapingi (Jilin Zhaoni).
(83) Onychodactylus zhaoermii (Liaoning).
(84) Paramesotriton caudopunctatus (spot-tailed warty newt).
(85) Paramesotriton chinensis (Chinese warty newt).
(86) Paramesotriton deloustali (no common name).
(87) Paramesotriton fuzhongensis (no common name).
(88) Paramesotriton guanxiensis (Guangxi warty newt).
(89) Paramesotriton hongkongensis (no common name).
(90) Paramesotriton labiatus (spotless stout newt).
(91) Paramesotriton longliensis (no common name).
(92) Paramesotriton maolanensis (no common name).
(93) Paramesotriton qixilingensis (no common name).
(94) Paramesotriton wulingensis (no common name).
(95) Paramesotriton yunwuensis (no common name).
(96) Paramesotriton zhijinensis (no common name).
(97) Plethodon ainsworthi (Catahoula salamander, bay springs salamander).
(98) Plethodon albagula (western slimy salamander).
(99) Plethodon amplus (Blue Ridge gray-cheeked salamander).
(100) Plethodon angusticlavius (Ozark salamander, Ozark zigzag salamander).
(101) Plethodon asupak (Scott Bar salamander).
(102) Plethodon aureolus (Tellico salamander).
(103) Plethodon caddoensis (Caddo Mountain salamander).
(104) Plethodon chattahoochee (Chattahoochee slimy salamander).
(105) Plethodon cheoah (Cheoah bald salamander).
(106) Plethodon chlorobryonis (Atlantic Coast slimy salamander).
(107) Plethodon cinereus (eastern red-backed salamander, redback salamander, salamandre rayée, red-backed salamander).
(108) Plethodon cylindraceus (white-spotted slimy salamander).
(109) Plethodon dorsalis (zigzag salamander, northern zigzag salamander).
(110) Plethodon dunni (Dunn’s salamander).
(111) Plethodon electromorphus (northern ravine salamander).
(112) Plethodon elongatus (Del Norte salamander).
4
(113) Plethodon fourchensis (Fourche Mountain salamander).
(114) Plethodon glutinosus (slimy salamander, northern slimy salamander).
(115) Plethodon grobmani (southeastern slimy salamander).
(116) Plethodon hoffmani (valley and ridge salamander).
(117) Plethodon hubrichti (Peaks of Otter salamander).
(118) Plethodon idahoensis (Coeur d’Alene salamander).
(119) Plethodon jordani (Appalachian salamander, red-cheeked salamander, Jordan's salamander).
(120) Plethodon kentucki (Kentucky salamander, Cumberland Plateau salamander).
(121) Plethodon kiamichi (Kiamichi slimy salamander).
(122) Plethodon kisatchie (Louisiana slimy salamander).
(123) Plethodon larselli (Larch Mountain salamander).
(124) Plethodon meridianus (South Mountain gray-cheeked salamander, southern gray-cheeked salamander).
(125) Plethodon metcalfi (southern gray-cheeked salamander).
(126) Plethodon mississippi (Mississippi slimy salamander).
(127) Plethodon montanus (northern gray-cheeked salamander).
(128) Plethodon neomexicanus (Jemez Mountains salamander).
(129) Plethodon nettingi (Cheat Mountain salamander).
(130) Plethodon ocmulgee (Ocmulgee slimy salamander).
(131) Plethodon ouachitae (Rich Mountain salamander).
(132) Plethodon petraeus (Pigeon Mountain salamander).
(133) Plethodon punctatus (white-spotted salamander, cow knob salamander).
(134) Plethodon richmondi (southern ravine salamander, ravine salamander).
(135) Plethodon savannah (Savannah slimy salamander).
(136) Plethodon sequoyah (Sequoyah slimy salamander).
(137) Plethodon serratus (southern red-backed salamander).
(138) Plethodon shenandoah (Shenandoah salamander).
(139) Plethodon sherando (Big Levels salamander).
(140) Plethodon shermani (red-legged salamander).
(141) Plethodon stormi (Siskiyou Mountains salamander).
(142) Plethodon teyahalee (Southern Appalachian salamander).
(143) Plethodon vandykei (Van ****’s salamander).
(144) Plethodon variolatus (South Carolina slimy salamander).
(145) Plethodon vehiculum (western red-backed salamander).
(146) Plethodon ventralis (southern zigzag salamander).
(147) Plethodon virginia (Shenandoah Mountain salamander).
(148) Plethodon websteri (Webster’s salamander).
(149) Plethodon wehrlei (Wehrle’s salamander).
(150) Plethodon welleri (Weller’s salamander).
(151) Plethodon yonahlossee (Yonahlossee salamander).
(152) Pleurodeles nebulosus (no common name).
(153) Pleurodeles poireti (Algerian newt).
(154) Pleurodeles waltl (Spanish newt).
(155) Salamandra algira (Algerian salamander).
(156) Salamandra atra (alpine salamander).
5
(157) Salamandra corsica (Corsican fire salamander).
(158) Salamandra infraimmaculata (no common name).
(159) Salamandra lanzai (Lanza’s alpine salamander, Salamandra di Lanza).
(160) Salamandra salamandra (fire salamander).
(161) Salamandrella keyserlingii (Siberian newt).
(162) Salamandrella tridactyla (no common name).
(163) Salamandrina perspicillata (northern spectacled salamander).
(164) Salamandrina terdigitata (southern spectacled salamander).
(165) Siren intermedia (lesser siren).
(166) Siren lacertina (greater siren).
(167) Taricha granulosa (rough-skinned newt).
(168) Taricha rivularis (red-bellied newt).
(169) Taricha sierrae (Sierra newt).
(170) Taricha torosa (California newt).
(171) Triturus carnifex (Italian crested newt).
(172) Triturus cristatus (great crested newt).
(173) Triturus dobrogicus (Danube crested newt).
(174) Triturus hongkongensis (no common name)
(175) Triturus ivanbureschi (Balkan-Anatolian crested newt, Buresch’s crested newt).
(176) Triturus karelinii (Southern crested newt).
(177) Triturus macedonicus (no common name).
(178) Triturus marmoratus (marbled newt).
(179) Triturus pygmaeus (pygmy marbled newt).
(180) Triturus vittatus (no common name).
(181) Tylototriton anguliceps (angular-headed newt).
(182) Tylototriton asperrimus (black knobby newt).
(183) Tylototriton broadoridgus (no common name).
(184) Tylototriton dabienicus (no common name).
(185) Tylototriton daweishanensis (no common name).
(186) Tylototriton hainanensis (Hainan knobby newt).
(187) Tylototriton kweichowensis (red-tailed knobby newt).
(188) Tylototriton liuyangensis (no common name).
(189) Tylototriton lizhenchangi (Mangshan crocodile newt).
(190) Tylototriton notialis (no common name).
(191) Tylototriton panhai (no common name).
(192) Tylototriton pseudoverrucosus (southern Sichuan crocodile newt).
(193) Tylototriton shanjing (Yunnan newt).
(194) Tylototriton shanorum (no common name).
(195) Tylototriton taliangensis (Thailand newt).
(196) Tylototriton uyenoi (no common name).
(197) Tylototriton verrucosus (Himalayan newt).
(198) Tylototriton vietnamensis (no common name).
(199) Tylototriton wenxianensis (Wenxian knobby newt).
(200) Tylototriton yangi (Tiannan crocodile newt).
(201) Tylototriton ziegleri (Ziegler’s crocodile newt).

JBear
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,202 Posts
I am catching up on the conversation about this that is happening over at caudata. One good point that is raised there is that this may set precedent for sweeping laws, and since our hobbies are quite small, I wonder if any of you might want to scan through the thread as it develops, and jump in on any developments for petitions and letter writing that come up in the next few days.

The opportunity to voice concerns opens up tomorrow, from what I'm reading.

SWEEPING BAN on salamander trade/transportation in effect this month - Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Forum
I'm not on here often anymore but disappointed to find this way down in a subsection.

This is really no different than that 2010 request of a Chytrid (Bd) Free Certification on all amphibians, except USFW took action. The issue at that time was Bd was already widespread and it went through the normal protocal: published in the Federal Register, 60 days of comments, and action if USFW chose to take it. Here it was press released, Published, and action taking during 60 days of comments.

The biggest issue with the action is it is far reaching. The data currently shows two species, Salamandra salamandra and Ichthyosaura alpestris, in Belgium and Netherlands to have been effected. (Plus the possible species from Asia, Cynops orientalis and Pachytriton labiatus, that imported the fungus.) Species from non affected areas should not be placed on the CAT X listing as there is no probable cause of infection. The practice of containment would best fit this situation, prohibiting wild caught imports from Europe and Asia, creating a quarantine zone. This should be lifted once a standard protocol for PCR testing is in place for imports. This would also need to be a coordinated effort with the Canadian Ministry of Environment and Climate Change and Mexican Department of Game and Fish as chytrid has been found to survive and be transferred by migratory birds leaving our actions frivolous if it is transferred by migratory birds.

This ban prevents the transfer of samples (swabs) for testing. This hurt research, which I believe was done to to allow certain individual to have an edge on the research. PCR testing is available for Bsal just as in Bd and treatments using elevated temperatures have show effective in treating Bsal (Successful treatment of Batrachochytrium salamandrivorans infections in salamanders requires synergy between voriconazole, polymyxin E and temperature : Scientific Reports). It hurts institutions (zoos, aquariums, and academia) as they have more of a hassle to acquire specimens for research and display.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
I'm kinda jumping in on the conversation here... But shouldn't DB raise awareness (not meaning to be rude to the mods and admins)? If these guys can get to a ban on salamanders just because of two genera infected in Europe, what's stopping them from going to darts and other amphibians which could 'possibly be infected with Chytrid', as Save the Frogs will probably say? Also I know that some members here have large YouTube Channels with hundreds of subscribers... Shouldn't we be doing all we can to raise awareness? With only several thousand people out of 318 million aware of this and fewer working on a solution, the government isn't going to pay us much attention... Not without more people/angry hobbyists:). I hope that I fully understood the thread I read and aren't being rude and treading on anyone's toes, and if I did by this post, I apologize in advance:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Groundhog
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top