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Discussion Starter #1
I have access to a very good LED engineer. I talked to him about what I wanted to do and he started asking me questions I could not answer. He is very interested in enginnering and designing a ligth that meets the demands of what is needed for my future frogs and plants. I'm planning on standardizing on exxo terra vivs 24x18x24. Any help on what is needed to make the perfect led light if you could have whatever you wanted.
Here are some of the things he was asking about:
CCT
CRI
Lumen
Foot-Candles
He did not ask about colors, but he designs led for the office environment not for vivs.So anything I can get would be great.
 

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not sure how much of an expert he is ? being CCT and CRI are both measurements of color in lighting (CCT is more appropriate for LEDs). once again Foot Candle and Lumens are both measurements of brightness. yes there are slight differences between the two but when asking you your requirements only one of each above is required, BUT FC with the right equipment can be verified in your tank if need be.
for a viv i would say about 1600FC at the top of the viv will do you well. next you need to meet the colors, see chart i made below

the colorful part is a 50/50 mix of warm white LEDs and white LEDs. this was the closest mix of LEDs i could get that made light plants wanted and was pleasing to look at.



if he can figure out how to add UVB to this then he'll succeed where i have failed.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
not sure how much of an expert he is ? being CCT and CRI are both measurements of color in lighting (CCT is more appropriate for LEDs). once again Foot Candle and Lumens are both measurements of brightness. yes there are slight differences between the two but when asking you your requirements only one of each above is required, BUT FC with the right equipment can be verified in your tank if need be.
for a viv i would say about 1600FC at the top of the viv will do you well. next you need to meet the colors, see chart i made below

the colorful part is a 50/50 mix of warm white LEDs and white LEDs. this was the closest mix of LEDs i could get that made light plants wanted and was pleasing to look at.



if he can figure out how to add UVB to this then he'll succeed where i have failed.
Maybe you should do the design for me**S** I'm hoping to have something design that well have a dawn to dusk feature. 4 hours on for dawn with a 2 hour overlap of the daytime lights (6 hours) then 4 hours dusk with a 2 hour over lap. Given me 10 hours of light total. With a power up on the dawn side and a power down on the dusk side. What do you think of adding a uvb for either the dawn or dusk side of the unit? Just thinking out load on my keyboard here. I was also thinking about a moonlight mode that would only be used maybe every three days or something like that? Small fans to cool the unit. So what do you think, can it be done??
 

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Why not just have a single T5 uvb bulb come on for a couple hours at midday? Simulating the sun at its strongest.... just a thought. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination :)
 

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Why not just have a single T5 uvb bulb come on for a couple hours at midday? Simulating the sun at its strongest.... just a thought. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination :)
I may end up doing this. I just want to see waht some real experts can come up with. I'm sure zoos are doing things like this and I was trying to see if something for the average person can be pulled off. I am going to do this to see if it can be a cost savings or at least a break even based on a 10 year period. If I can show a cost savings for that period and have something really cool, I'm sure other people here would be interested in doing the same thing themselves.
 

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Why not just have a single T5 uvb bulb come on for a couple hours at midday? Simulating the sun at its strongest.... just a thought. I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination :)
i ended up doing something similar since i couldnt figure out the LED option. Im using a 9w lamp thats on 2.5 hours mid day. had to get a whole new ballast set up and such. still working on the top of tank fixture but its coming together little by little.

kinda shows a rough idea of what i was doing when i first started.
 

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New on here, but have been researchin LEDs for some time. The reefers have plans for building controllers for different circuits to simulate the exact light cycle you are after.

In addition they do have LEDs that emit UV light. The current/amp requirements will mean they avevto have their own circuit.
 

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my viv is doing well at 100 lumens at the floor. if he can replicate this with a nice led array you will do well. i also would recommend mixing cool white with warm white leds at a 2 to 1 ratio. adding uvb would be very cool but they seem very pricey. at 24 inches deep you will probably want 60 degree optics. let us know what he come up with.
 

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Contact Todd at Light Your Reptiles. He knows a lot about the LEDs. Instead of running my UV bulb at midday, I run it first. I do this because it is just one bulb. It creates a "morning" light that is not as bright as all my LEDs. Plus, it is on when the frogs seem most active. I also run the UVB for an hour before bed to have a "sunset" effect. Again, this is a time they seem pretty active. It doesn't do any good to run a UV bulb when they are hiding :)
 

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WOW Lookie what I just found UV leds are getting better and cheap too:D
Cutter Electronics
While that produces UV lighting, it produces the wrong wavelength. That range is well short of the ideal range to allow an animal to manufacture D3.. You need a wavelength below 320 nm (with the sweet spot being around 285-298 nm) which is very different than what those leds are producing.

Ed
 

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New on here, but have been researchin LEDs for some time. The reefers have plans for building controllers for different circuits to simulate the exact light cycle you are after.

In addition they do have LEDs that emit UV light. The current/amp requirements will mean they avevto have their own circuit.
not sure if they are using the right leds? you have a link?

WOW Lookie what I just found UV leds are getting better and cheap too:D
Cutter Electronics
the 300-440 if available might be helpful, but really it needs to drop a few more wave lengths for maximum functionality as 285-400 is whats needed, on top of that id like to see a spectrometer reading of the 285-400 if it ever comes out so i knew what the peaks and valleys were and to see what the intensities are?

Contact Todd at Light Your Reptiles. He knows a lot about the LEDs. Instead of running my UV bulb at midday, I run it first. I do this because it is just one bulb. It creates a "morning" light that is not as bright as all my LEDs. Plus, it is on when the frogs seem most active. I also run the UVB for an hour before bed to have a "sunset" effect. Again, this is a time they seem pretty active. It doesn't do any good to run a UV bulb when they are hiding :)
there is some info i have read that suggests changing that schedule to mid day will change their behavior and they will come out to self regulate the UV intake.
 

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there is some info i have read that suggests changing that schedule to mid day will change their behavior and they will come out to self regulate the UV intake.
Well actually the frogs have a daily bimodal activity under natural conditions. They are most active in the morning and in the late afternoon. Now whether this is a result of conditionally attempting to avoid excess UV exposure or due to other factors (say temperature), can still be debated...

Ed
 

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ahhh i see, i have been reading too much on the UVB side that could be bias rather than using Occam's razor.

while in panama for what was too short of a time, it seemed that activity under the canopy was pretty high from dawn to dusk(only pumilio sp) (and surprisingly to me calling even hours after dark)
 

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My pumilio will call at night if there is a bright moon outside. I've had leucomelas call at 2-3 AM.
See JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie (not free access)
abstrat quoted here
Abstract:
Activity of Dendrobates auratus and D. pumilio in northeastern Costa Rica was monitored at 45 min intervals throughout daylight hours on nine days in late-June and early-July 1997. Activity of D. pumilio peaked early in the morning, declined steadily to mid-day, then remained at a relatively low level through the afternoon. Activity of D. auratus peaked in early afternoon, and was more consistent throughout the day than was activity of D. pumilio. There was a clear peak in use of elevated perches by D. pumilio, which occurred shortly after sunrise, although no such pattern was evident for D. auratus. A significant positive relationship between rainfall and activity was evident for D. pumilio, but not for D. auratus. These data demonstrate differences in activity patterns between these congeners, in spite of many ecological similarities
also http://www.natuurwetenschappen.be/e...pdf/BJZ 132(2)/Volume 132(2), pp. 105-109.pdf...

Keep in mind that those descriptions are for most of a population and not all of the animals may engage in the same temporal partioning...

Ed


Ed
 

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While that produces UV lighting, it produces the wrong wavelength. That range is well short of the ideal range to allow an animal to manufacture D3.. You need a wavelength below 320 nm (with the sweet spot being around 285-298 nm) which is very different than what those leds are producing.

Ed
thank you ed.
 

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there is some info i have read that suggests changing that schedule to mid day will change their behavior and they will come out to self regulate the UV intake.
yes ... my variabilis all do. :D

remember, dart frogs don't need allot of UV.

I shoot for about 25-50 Uw/cm2 in just PARTS of an enclosure.. and below 10 in the rest.
Full Mid day sun is 260 - 300 Uw/cm2 in the tropics - but you do NOT want to have that in an enclosure at all.

It is very interesting to take a solarmeter out and measure the UV in dappled sunlight like what comes through a leaf canopy and creates patches of high light/UV and low UV shady Zones.
Ferguson Zones.

Please feel free to e/m with any questions, but PM-ing is not so good because I forget to check sometimes. LOL.:eek:

Cheers!

Todd Goode
[email protected]

PS.
Even though you could get a huge debate going, I say the BEST method is to have screen holes or screen strips in the glass tops with the GOOD Uv bulbs (like Arcadia or Repti Sun CFLS) over the screen holes.
Some folks use Solacryl and thats cool...
But with the glass and holes, you are in effect creating MINI Ferguson Zones of high and low UV in the tank, JUST LIKE NATURE. ;)
Word to ya' motha. :)
And there is far less risk in over-doing it... since most folks are uv-ing without a Solarmeter 6.2 (or 6.5). Like driving with-out a seat belt! :p
ps... note uv readings in grow out tank pics (2 pics) below once you move the solarmeter 6.2 around under the screen holes vs just the glass.
The lid on this 18gal. tank is the Aqu. lid in teh pic that has 5 screen holes drilled in the glass and is being lit with an Arcadia 12% t8 Bulb.
The 12% is too high to use over solacryly, but because most of the UV is getting knocked out by the glass, it the the right choice for THIS particular set-up. :rolleyes:
 

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todd i agree with some of this info how ever i still feel that the solarmeter6.2 and 6.5 isnt the right tool for the job. yes it gives you a uw/cm2 number, but is that measuring a the uw/cm2 of 340nm or is that heavy 280nm, or is it some where in between? well with that tool youll never know. with out a true spectrometer providing information like this you are still "driving a car with out a seat belt"
 

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todd i agree with some of this info how ever i still feel that the solarmeter6.2 and 6.5 isnt the right tool for the job. yes it gives you a uw/cm2 number, but is that measuring a the uw/cm2 of 340nm or is that heavy 280nm, or is it some where in between? well with that tool youll never know. with out a true spectrometer providing information like this you are still "driving a car with out a seat belt"
Hi Motlydesign,

The Solarmeter 6.2 is still the best that is readily available to most hobbyists and the band sensitivity can be viewed at the Solarmeter site.
(along with the 6.5's sensitivity as well.)

You have got it ALL wrong to say it is still like driving without a seat-belt.
(Sorry, but it's true.)

It is driving with a seat-belt... now, maybe it is NOT a 5 point harness...
I would grant you that....
But it is the standard* that is used for what we do.
And also the readings are probably one of the more universal references in the herp community.

* Solarmeter 6.5 not with-standing.

Actually correlating the reading ratio between a 6.2 and 6.5 seems to be the better thing to do now, and the buzz for Europe surrounding the 15-1 ratio between the 6.2 & 6.5 reading.... but not everyone has access to, or can afford both.

I would point you to Frances Baines site for more on that.

UV Guide UK - Ultraviolet Light for Reptiles - UVB reptile lighting on test

Finis.:)

Cheers!

Todd
 
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