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Okay, I've recently put my almirante pair together in the 10 gallon vert i had for them. The male has been calling every day and has been calling alot. The female hasn't really responded yet. Does it just take time, or is she not old enough? Anyone who has bred pumilio, did it take a little time for them to become acclimated to eachother? Any help would be greatly appreciated
 

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pumilio

D. Pumilio's are very hard to get to breed, especially a wild caught(farm raised) pair. You might want to see if there are any other pairs available, pick one up and switch the females to see if there are any breeding behaviors displayed. Pumilio's of any kind, be it cb or wc are not quick breeders, and must be kept with a patient mind state.
Charles
 

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Pumilio breeding

How do you know you have a pair? Males are sometimes easy to identify, by the throat spot, but just because the other frog doesnt look like a male doesnt mean its a female. Some times they are slow to breed, sometimes they breed very readily...but when I have wild caught pumilio that have just been imported, I feel it is a good idea to acclimate them thoroughly, for at least 30 days, preferably 60 before subjecting them to the stress of a tankmate, much less breeding. These frogs have been under a lot of stress, and may have health issues which are not immediately apparent.
Also, Charles, I dont know of any farm raiseed pumilio coming into this country, these frogs are all wild caughts, pure and simple.

Good luck!
 

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Re: Pumilio breeding

Patrick Nabors said:
Also, Charles, I dont know of any farm raiseed pumilio coming into this country, these frogs are all wild caughts, pure and simple.

Good luck!
Umm, where have you been? The forums here and on Kingsnake have been all abuzz over Seaside's farm raised imports.
 

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The frogs that are coming into this country are coming from a large farm in Panama. This farm has been in existence for several years and has been producing pumilio froglets on a consistent basis for several years. This has been documented by CITES officials in Panama and is the reason this farm has been given CITES permits to export animals. If the frogs coming from this farm are simply WC animals, CITES will shut the facility down and just like Costa Rica we will never see these animals in the hobby again.
 

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pumilio sex

I do have to agree with Patrick on one major point. Calling males make sexing them easy, but just because another doesn't, doesn't make it a female. Much of the time, especially in these stressful situations, males call to ward off other males. The more submissive male may not want to challenge, therefore doesn't call.

This constant calling is more likely territorial given that they haven't settled in yet to be physically able and ready to reproduce. It also could be stressful on the other frog. I would recommend separating them in that case. Better safe than sorry.

I asked for two pairs myself, I'm pretty sure I ended up with 4 males, but we'll see. The good thing is that all of them are healthy, active and eating properly.

As far as WC vs Farm raised, there's no real way that we know. I hope they are farm raised, and I would think that CITES does its job to some extent even though the regulations down there are a little less strict.
 

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this is moving off the original subject but, kenya if you do have four males, I'm curious to know what your going to do until you get a female. Will you keep the males all separated for now?
 

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"gotta keep 'um separated"

Yeah, I have them all in individual 5 1/2 and 10 G tanks. I'm not going to hand out advice that I'm not willing to take myself.

Out of convenience at first I had them together. I wasn't expecting the shipment for another couple of weeks, and they were supposedly pairs. After watching them for a couple days I started to think that it was most likely and agressive warning call rather than a mating call, not to mention he constantly followed the other one around and at times almost jumped on it. So, as soon as I had extra tanks available that were sterile, I moved the second ones out. This only was seen in one of the pairs, the others were pretty mellow, but I walked in my office at one point and swore that I saw a slightly distended throat on both of them.

I really hope that I'm wrong and I end up with a couple females.
 

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farm raised pumilio

I have some first hand knowledge as well, which unfortunately I am required to keep to my self, and of course I used my eyes when I checked out the pumilio I recieved, and based on both of these things, the frogs which have come in, both from Glenn, and from the other source, which will remain un-named, were not farm raised. There may very well be a large farm down there, which has been producing pumilio, but these were not captive bred, in my opinion.
Heres a question for you, why do you think that so far the morphs, that have come in are not those that have been offered? My theory is that the frogs being offered via pictures are just that, pictures, pictures taken from websites and other sources. Now when it comes to frogs, we are seeing something different. Where are the elusive green and blues? I dont expect to see any any time soon, they are probably too hard to collect. The predominate frog imported so far has been the Alimaranetes, which are mainland forms, and probably easier to collect, and I bet we see lots more of them before any green and blues come in.
I remember the last few big auratus shipments, when the Panamanian exporter(the same one involved with this deal) promised lots of blue and bronze right up to the time the shipment left the country. When the shipment arrived in this country, they had all turned into normal green and blacks. Very strange!!

Best, Patrick
 

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The proposal for the INIBCO project in Peru might help clarify the confusion between what is a frog farm vs. what is captive bred. I can't say that this is the method being used in Panama, but I can't say that it isn't, either.

http://www.gefweb.org/Documents/Medium- ... t_Frog.pdf

Regarding public comments on what is actually happenning in Panama, I would again urge caution in making statements about how animals are being collected in Panama unless you have specific personal knowledge. Assumptive statements may not be accurate, and could improperly arouse enough suspicion to close importation without a reasonable basis.
 

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That document is unbelievable. I think that is a great proposal if it falls through. Praise goes to the people trying to push that foward.
holy sh%T

I love the way they document all the risks involved ("wont stop deforestation", "frog population may decrease", "unable to produce frogs")

Thanks for the info homer.
 

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Yes, if you check Sean's Herpetologic website, he has been adding some updates on the progress of the project from time to time.
 

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I'm sure these animals were not captive bred in the way we as hobbyist think of captive bred. We think of CB animals as single pair in a 10 gallon tank (or larger), when froglets emerge we take them and care for them individually etc. On these farms the animals are producing in a controlled setting but more often than not they aren't doing this in a fish tank. They are doing this in an open environment, exposed to the same elements they are in the wild and as such they are going to be a little more "beat up" than one that was raised its whole life in a fish tank. Farm raised should be treated the same as WC in terms of risk, acclimation to captivity etc. but we shouldn't discount completely the fact that these farms are producing animals.
 
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