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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am a somewhat newbie to breeding red eyed tree frogs. I met a RETF breeder on this forum and proceeded to meet him at a reptile show to buy his frogs because I was very interested in breeding. I bought 5 that day. 4 from him and 1 from another breeder. I already had 7 adults, 1 juvenile and tadpoles from successfully breeding the 7 I already had. This put my collection to 12 adults(6M6F) a juvenile + tads. I was already treating my collection for parasites in sterilite tubs and I decided to treat the new ones too because I was building a new 134 gallon viv and didn't want to risk parasite contamination.

One of the frogs I purchased had a small reddish black spot on the hind leg on the day of purchase but I figured it to be some kind of scar. It did not appear to be sick and I trusted this breeder to not sell me a sick frog. After treating each frog with a single syringe for parasites, not keeping every single frog in its own tub (MY BIGGEST MISTAKE) and not hand washing after cleaning all 6 quarantine tubs each day I inadvertently spread a form of frog dermatitis to my entire collection. The male with the spot got another and another and 3 days later he was dying. I contacted Dr. Frye and immediately started silver sulfadiazine and switched from metronidazole to Baytril. Sure enough within a week one by one frogs were getting spots and they were not responding at all to treatment. Some got them on their mouths, some on their toe pads, all on the belly and on the flanks. They resembled cold sores on the body but the feet looked more like painful red growths that would hemorrhage and they spread daily on the body like wildfire. the males were hit the worst and the fastest. I just started euthanizing all of them not responding to treatment with Orajel. They were in horrendous pain:( I have only one that cleared up quickly with treatment, a large female, and she is still in quarantine but is thriving. 3 of the 4 frogs I purchased of his died, along with 4 others from my collection. 7 dead, 4 never came down with any symptoms. I discussed it with the breeder and he felt that since they were wild caught, the one frog could have been a carrier and the sickness took over after the stress from the show.


SOOOOOOOO.... my question is... has anyone ever dealt with this illness before? Were there any survivors? (I heard their NEVER is) and would putting the female who overcame the disease back with the others be too great of a risk? could future frogs be in jeopardy? I have 1 captive bred juvenile, and 6 of my own captive bred froglets. Could they ever go in the viv with the others pr breed with the ones who never came down with the illness?
Advice please :)
 

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I lost one of my prized males from this illness. I purchased a large female (I was told she was CB) and she was in quarantine for 3 months. The moment that i pulled her out and put her with my male she started displaying syptoms. She ended up dying in 2 days, spread to the male and took him to the vet. They put him on baytril and he did not make it. I was devastated. It looked like cold sores all over his body and just would not recover. I am glad some of your frogs lived but I know exactly what you went through.

As far as putting the babies where that disease was...NO.

I had to completely break down my viv. Disinfect everything...Three times. After letting it completely dry. They did fine after that but I def would not risk that.
 
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Oh no!! How awful!

I would not add any of the infected frogs to your established group or your juvie or tads. I would keep the infected survivors in their own tank, away from the rest of your collection, and monitor them for quite a while. In the meantime, I think you should contact a vet and ask them about the risk of contamination from the healed frogs.

What is the name of this disease? Did you get a necropsy done?
 

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Oh no!! How awful!

I would not add any of the infected frogs to your established group or your juvie or tads. I would keep the infected survivors in their own tank, away from the rest of your collection, and monitor them for quite a while. In the meantime, I think you should contact a vet and ask them about the risk of contamination from the healed frogs.

What is the name of this disease? Did you get a necropsy done?
I sent my specimen out for a necropsy. Unfortunately even after the frog was put in the freezer after death, and kept in formalin he was to decomposed in the inside (even though he looked whole) to be able to give a good diagnosis.

However, my veterinarian did say that it could potentially be some sort of fungus that causes them to have their skin just decay and spread. Which would make sense to me.
From what I saw of this, the disease spread like wildfire. Within 5 hours of noticing the female (even after removing her and moving the male out of the tank) he started showing symptoms. I feel if this was viral symptoms may not be so sudden.
He did rx some baytril-otic which unfortunately did not do anything.
 

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It's my opinion that you should reach out and contact someone more knowledgeable for help and advice, perhaps to help you find a vet capable of diagnosing the disease. I didn't mention anything earlier in my previous post, as I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, and I figured someone would say something, but, and I apologize if this seems harsh, I really don't mean it that way. I'm just saying it to underline the severity of the issue. You seem to have a pretty serious situation going on, and I personally wouldn't want anything from your frogroom/tanks coming anywhere near my collection. If you intend on continuing with frog keeping, major safety precautions need to be taken. Again, I apologize if I seemed harsh, it was not my intent.
 

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I agree with jacobi. Most of us are out of our depth with this. This disease appears to be highly contagious and fast at spreading and killing frogs. You need professional help. And if I may say, as much help as Dr Frye is for fecals and getting meds to people, I think you need a local vet who can actually see and put hands on your animals. Someone who can culture the sores, perform necropsies, and is trained in exotic animals.

I don't know anything about California but there are quite a few CA froggers here. I bet someone can get you in touch with a local exotic vet.

West - Dendroboard
 

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3 of the 4 frogs I purchased of his died, along with 4 others from my collection. 7 dead, 4 never came down with any symptoms. I discussed it with the breeder and he felt that since they were wild caught, the one frog could have been a carrier and the sickness took over after the stress from the show.
Can we discuss the purchase of the frogs, a little, without actually naming the breeder who sold them to you?

What I am wondering is why the breeder was selling WC frogs instead of frogs he had bred? Do they sell CB or only WC? You say you found the breeder here. Did you find a feedback thread on this breeder and did his feedback look ok? http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/vendor-feedback/

I have concern for collection wipe-outs from other frogs that came in contact with the lot yours came from.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The wild caught collection he sold to me were his breeders. I didnt know they were wild caught when I bought them. I am not trying to ruin this guy, he is trying his best to make it right. He sold them all at the show because he tore down his viv and decided to start over for some reason. From what I understand they are all sold and he is going to start over breeding a new collection of frogs hes ordering. I really would rather not bash him since he is supposedly replacing 5 of them for me. Im not trying to hurt anyone I just needed advice. I am aware now that it is really a bad idea to combine the frogs now...which really bums me out because I wish that my cb collection were able to enjoy my 134 gallon viv I spent so much time money and effort building ='(
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Oh and when I inquired about a neocropsy my local exotics vet told me some outlandish price of about $500+ dollars. My exotic vet really doesnt know too much about frogs and charges an arm and a leg for just an office visit. I was in contact with Dr.Frye the entire time and had already sent out fecals of my frogs before I bought the frogs at the show. He supplied me with the abundance of medications I was using to try and combat the virus
 

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The wild caught collection he sold to me were his breeders. I didnt know they were wild caught when I bought them. I am not trying to ruin this guy, he is trying his best to make it right. He sold them all at the show because he tore down his viv and decided to start over for some reason. From what I understand they are all sold and he is going to start over breeding a new collection of frogs hes ordering. I really would rather not bash him since he is supposedly replacing 5 of them for me. Im not trying to hurt anyone I just needed advice. I am aware now that it is really a bad idea to combine the frogs now...which really bums me out because I wish that my cb collection were able to enjoy my 134 gallon viv I spent so much time money and effort building ='(
I don't think anyone here wants to bash anyone and I appreciate that he wants to reimburse you for your loss. However, there is just a great deal of concern that this could spread to other collections.

So his breeders are WC. Presumably, they did not have sores when they were his breeders. He believes the stress of going to the show caused the illness to come out. Usually WC frogs are treated prophylactically for presumed illness and parasites. Did he do this with his WC breeders? For some reason, he broke down their tank and decided to start over with new frogs that he's ordering.
 

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Oh and when I inquired about a neocropsy my local exotics vet told me some outlandish price of about $500+ dollars. My exotic vet really doesnt know too much about frogs and charges an arm and a leg for just an office visit. I was in contact with Dr.Frye the entire time and had already sent out fecals of my frogs before I bought the frogs at the show. He supplied me with the abundance of medications I was using to try and combat the virus
Maybe you could check around with some froggers in your area to find a local vet. My vet charges 140 for a necropsy but they told me to just take the frog to the State Pathology Lab, where they will do it for 50. Not all vets are out to charge as much as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
They are still frozen in my freezer.Ill look around for another vet. Is it too late for a neocropsy?
 

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It will depend on how long the specimen was dead prior to putting in the freezer. When I lost mine I immediately put in the freezer (was dead for maybe a few hours) and the laboratory (idexx) told me that the specimen was to broken down. On the car ride to the vet i got to work and immediately put it in the formalin. Shipped out the frog. 3 weeks later I finally get a response saying that they were unable to come up with a diagnosis because of the age of the body.
So i am wondering if it was too far gone because they simply took to long to dissect him.

I would give it a try and hope they give back something. I did not get a lot of answers from my veterinarian ( i work at a vet and the Dr sees exotics), both of them seemed stumped (even when he was alive).
 

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Oh and when I inquired about a neocropsy my local exotics vet told me some outlandish price of about $500+ dollars. My exotic vet really doesnt know too much about frogs and charges an arm and a leg for just an office visit. I was in contact with Dr.Frye the entire time and had already sent out fecals of my frogs before I bought the frogs at the show. He supplied me with the abundance of medications I was using to try and combat the virus
My vet in Carlsbad used to be the exotics vet for the San Diego zoo. Great guy and definitely knows his stuff, if youre looking for a new vet
 

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I don't think anyone here wants to bash anyone and I appreciate that he wants to reimburse you for your loss. However, there is just a great deal of concern that this could spread to other collections.

So his breeders are WC. Presumably, they did not have sores when they were his breeders. He believes the stress of going to the show caused the illness to come out. Usually WC frogs are treated prophylactically for presumed illness and parasites. Did he do this with his WC breeders? For some reason, he broke down their tank and decided to start over with new frogs that he's ordering.
I also agree with this statement. Who knows how many froglets this 'business' has sold that these animals could be potential carriers. I mean it is scary, alot of Red Eyes go to people who are just beginning to get into frogs and their popularity is scary enough to show that this could potentially be pretty dangerous for someone who may of purchased a frog from this 'business.

Rana Virus was mentioned. Can anyone give me some details about it?
 

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I think, somewhere on here, there is a post about how freezing is not good. Not sure, I'll have to go look for it. I was told to put the frog in the refridgerator, with nothing else in with it, and bring it to them first thing in the morning. I'll see what I can find.
 

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I also agree with this statement. Who knows how many froglets this 'business' has sold that these animals could be potential carriers.

I am somewhat unfamiliar with the Rana Virus. Can anyone give me some details about it?
Yes, and not just froglets. These frogs were at a reptile show. Were they handled when rounded up and put into a container for the purchaser? Where did those hands go next? Where they sanitized? How about the container that now has frog juice on it from being handled while scooping up frogs? Did the buyer handle the container and then go look at wood for a tank or pick up a bag of leaf litter and then put it back down? Who came along next?

(sorry, I really don't mean to be picking on you RETFgirl. These are dangers inherent in any animal show and something we should all be thinking about).
 
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