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*Purchase a trio of Cobalts Dec. 19th 2010 from a sponser on this website. (PM me and I will give info to the ID since this insn't Vender Feedback)

*Of the three, only one looked a little thin, and I thought I could fatten it up by feeding dusted flies 2x day (Note picture #1; this was the slightly underweight one)

*Approx. about 2 months ago, what I thought was breeding behavior, with advice on this forum, I was told the 'frog on top of the frog' or 'hugging tightly' was more likely same sex aggression instead. Thus, I took the frog in picture #1 who was seperated, put the aggressor in the QT, and the underweight frog back in the main viv. The reason I did this was because I had noticed the one frog that was being stressed (note frog in picture #2) by the aggressive frog was also starting to lose weight.

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Since then, both the underweight frogs have been eating their flies, iso's, and springs, and have shown to be friendly with each other but I'm now concerned about the thinest of the two frogs in question. I don't know if now I should be concerned about paracites??

My feeding regimine:

*Feed 2x day, 7 days a week; the melo, golden, and black hydei are always dusted with Calcium Plus. They have access to a feeding station too.

*I mist 1x day for now, but will soon be misting 2x day soon since the ambient air is now becoming drier.

*I supplement with tropical and pink springs, white and gray isopods.

Specs on tank:

20L viv
Sphagnum/Peat moss mix for subtrate, there is perlite but it is the base layer and has not rose to the top.

Temp: 74-79F when lights are on; I measured the temps with a temp. gun
Humidity: 85%

Here are the pictures:
Frog in pictures #1
 

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At this point, I'm not sure what my next course of action should be?

The thinest of the the two in question is back, alone, in the QT.

Also, apparently I do have a male in the mix... I only heard him twice, and I think it was sheer luck cause the room was dead silent, and the soft buzzing noise was almost barely audible. A very quiet sound.

Age is unknown since this sponser did not list the age, only the size which at the time was 1/4 inches.

Please give me your opinions and advice.

Thanks,
Jessica
 

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Your first frog is scary skinny. Your parameters and feeding practices sound fine. I would get fecals done ASAP along with asking for the proper meds from whichever vet you use. Make sure the vet you choose is familiar with PDFs.
Good luck!
 
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Your first frog is scary skinny. Your parameters and feeding practices sound fine. I would get fecals done ASAP along with asking for the proper meds from whichever vet you use. Make sure the vet you choose is familiar with PDFs.
Good luck!
Scary skinny is what I'm thinking too. Doug, do you know where I can run a search on vets in my area that advertise experience with frogs to send a fecal too? My local vet office is closed for the night right now.

Thank you very much.
 

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Most clinics are probably closed for the night unless you go to an emergency clinic which is not going to be familiar with darts. I suggest calling any of the exotic vets in your area first thing in the morning to try and find an appropriate one. Most clinics only have limited Saturday hours and no Sunday hours.
 

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Some say go with ARAV vet. Some say try Dr. Frye. Here is the ARAV site. It includes a directory to find an ARAV vet in your area.
ARAV

Here is copy of an email conversation I had with Dr. Frye concerning getting fecals done through him. I have omited his address and phone as I don't feel I should be giving that out, but here is his email address which can be readily found out anyway. [email protected] NOTE: His pricing may have changed by now.

The cost is $18 per group of frogs housed together. Collect 3-5 feces from each group of frogs and put them in a small air-tight container with a small amount of moist paper towel to keep them from drying out. Label each tank’s sample and send them ASAP to ******. Try to aim for a Tuesday, Thursday, or Friday delivery. We are closed Wednesdays and Sundays, and the hospital closes on Saturdays before mail arrives. Next day delivery is ideal, but 2-day will work. You can include a check, call my hospital to pre-pay via credit card at *******, or send me funds through Pay-Pal at this address. Thanks.
 
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Scary skinny is what I'm thinking too. Doug, do you know where I can run a search on vets in my area that advertise experience with frogs to send a fecal too? My local vet office is closed for the night right now.

Thank you very much.
You can use this directory to look for exotic vets. ARAV

The vet doesn't have to have experience specific to dendrobatids. Experience with herps and/or a willingness to work with you and ask questions is often just as good.

It looks like you quarantined the frogs but did you get fecals done on them while they were in quarantine to check for parasite load?

Ed
 

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Those frogs are super skinny. I would definitely me concerned. You say they are eating well, but if so, they should not be so skinny. Definitely get fecals done ASAP. What you do from there depends on what the vet says. You're probably going to want to set up a couple quarantine tanks tho ASAP that you can alternate between sterilizing one while the frogs are in the other.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It looks like you quarantined the frogs but did you get fecals done on them while they were in quarantine to check for parasite load?

Ed
I did not. I thought the loss of weight was competition for food. Now I have regrets I did not act on this sooner.

Many thank you's for providing the ARAV link and thanks to Doug for the excerpt to Dr. Frye's e-mail.

I will keep you all updated if you'd like.
Jessica

PS My leuc's which are in their own viv, and were not purchased from the same company, are all doing very, very well. Just thought I'd throw this out there. :)
 

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In addition to the ARAV, here is the roster of all of the diplomats of the American College of Zoological Medicine. These are veterinarians that are board certified in zoological medicine. Most work at zoos but you may be lucky enough to have one of the few who practices on companion exotics in your area.
 

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Jessica, were these guys wild caught? You got them in 12/10 so they aren't part of the recent import. I think that was 2011.
They were advertised as C.B. 1/4 inches lsst year.

I posted a Vender Feedback post for where I got these frogs from as well.
 

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In addition to the ARAV, here is the roster of all of the diplomats of the American College of Zoological Medicine. These are veterinarians that are board certified in zoological medicine. Most work at zoos but you may be lucky enough to have one of the few who practices on companion exotics in your area.
Awesome! Thanks for this info.
 

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They were advertised as C.B. 1/4 inches lsst year.

I posted a Vender Feedback post for where I got these frogs from as well.
I notice you say they 1/4 in when you got them, what size are they now? I would also ask that you post 1 or 2 pics of their tank, 1 showing what it looks like inside the tank. What we are seeing in those frogs did not happen quick , it took quite a while to get to this condition. Ideally, if these were sought help for at an earlier stage the potential outcome would be better, as they sit, any improvement will take a long time. I look foward to seeing the tank pics, Bill
 

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In the meantime, you might try to get them to eat some ff larvae, to get extra calories in them. I've separated larvae from the media by putting a glob of it in a strainer and then rinsing the media through. I've also pulled them out by hand, but, that's not really a lot of fun.
 

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^ Kris's advice is sound.

A large chunk of banana in the tank will help too, FF will lay eggs and larvae will develop and be eaten by the frogs.

Personally, i would be treating with panacur or ivermectin now. I'd send fecals but I wouldnt wait for a response...instead i would start tx now [in fact I would have done so before they got this far along].

Good luck

S
 

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A topical dose of ivermectin from "Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry" is 2mg/kg.

Double, triple, quadruple check your calculations and post back for verification before dosing them.

EDIT:

Recommended dose for fenbendazole is 20-25 orally (good luck making that happen. A ball tip catheter stylet on the end of a syringe is probably the easiest way.) This is from a recommendation on the veterinary information network. Sorry I don't have a text source.

One big thing That needs to be mentioned is that depending on the life cycle of any potential parasite, cleaning up the environment is a must. I would start dosing frogs in a quarantine container. If the frogs get better but decline again after treatment, they're persistent in the environment and your viv has to be redone basically.

Good luck!
 

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In addition to the ARAV, here is the roster of all of the diplomats of the American College of Zoological Medicine. These are veterinarians that are board certified in zoological medicine. Most work at zoos but you may be lucky enough to have one of the few who practices on companion exotics in your area.
There are actually a large number of Zoo vets that are not listed there that are licensed to work in zoological medicine. As an example some notable absentees are the primary author/editors of Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry... It isn't required to work as a zoo vet but it helps and there are alternative paths depending on the college of choice.

Ed
 

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There are actually a large number of Zoo vets that are not listed there that are licensed to work in zoological medicine. As an example some notable absentees are the primary author/editors of Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry... It isn't required to work as a zoo vet but it helps and there are alternative paths depending on the college of choice.

Ed
Oh definitely. I just noticed some vets that are DACZM that weren't on the ARAV registry so I thought I would give all the options. It's definitely been the norm until recently that certification through an organization was a less common pathway. It seems to be shifting in the other direction now.
 
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