Mixing With Green Sips please look!

3915 Views 53 Replies 17 Participants Last post by mordoria, Jul 1, 2011

mavhammer45

Discussion Starter · Jun 29, 2011

I have a 40 gallon vivarium. Would it be a bad decision to house a leucomelas and a green sip. The vivarium is well plants with plenty of ponds and hiding spots. Could someone leave a answer thanks. I would only have 1 of each.

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EvilLost

· #2 · Jun 29, 2011

I'm not sure what a "green sip" is but the general rule is:

If you have to ask, then you shouldn't do it.

That is not necessarily to say they can't be housed together, but it takes an extremely advanced keeper with indepth knowledge of the individual species.

Do a search there are a TON of threads on mixing species and in particular there is one very large one that goes into very good detail about factors to consider (space usage, cross contamination, stress induction, breeding locations, etc, etc, etc)

Tony

· #3 · Jun 29, 2011

No, not a good idea. The search function will bring up more discussion on mixing than anyone would ever care to read.

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poison beauties

· #4 · Jun 29, 2011

NO, and its just not the fear of producing hybrids. Mixing can lead to the spreading of parasites and such from one group to the other as well as chytrid.

Michael

Reactions: 4

mavhammer45

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jun 29, 2011

They are both males.

Tony

· #6 · Jun 29, 2011

Sounds like you've already made up your mind, so why bother asking?

Reactions: 1

JimO

· #7 · Jun 29, 2011

Could you insert a subtle glass barrier and divide it into two vivs that look like one?

Reactions: 1

Pumilo

· #8 · Jun 29, 2011

poison beauties said:
NO, and its just not the fear of producing hybrids. Mixing can lead to the spreading of parasites and such from one group to the other as well as chytrid.

Michael

mavhammer45 said:
They are both males.

I don't understand why the fact that they are both males would somehow stop the spreading of parasites or chytrid.

thedude

· #9 · Jun 29, 2011

mavhammer45 said:
They are both males.

good thing poison beauties already addressed that its not just about hybrids.

EvilLost

· #10 · Jun 29, 2011

both of them being males does not solve the problem of aggression in fact it probably adds to it as well as stress/dominance

JimO

· #11 · Jun 29, 2011

First let me be clear that I do not support mixing. However, logic must prevail when someone asks why. Would there not be the same risk with putting two frogs of the same species/morph from different vivs together? Any two darts frogs that did not grow up together could exchange parasites or diseases. There is no greater risk of this, that I am aware of, between species that between two Green Sips or two Leucs, etc.

If I was new to the hobby and was given that as the sole reason not to put two males of different species together, then I'd be confused. As I understand it, a logical reason not to mix, even if it is safe for the frogs and no breeding will occur, is that it can confuse others new to the hobby into thinking it's ok when they come to your house and see the viv. Most people automatically think of it in terms of a fish tank. That is why zoos that display darts in mixed tanks do not help the hobby IMHO.

Pumilo said:
I don't understand why the fact that they are both males would somehow stop the spreading of parasites or chytrid.

Reactions: 3

Pumilo

· #12 · Jun 29, 2011

JimO said:
First let me be clear that I do not support mixing. However, logic must prevail when someone asks why. Would there not be the same risk with putting two frogs of the same species/morph from different vivs together? Any two darts frogs that did not grow up together could exchange parasites or diseases. There is no greater risk of this, that I am aware of, between species that between two Green Sips or two Leucs, etc.

If I was new to the hobby and was given that as the sole reason not to put two males of different species together, then I'd be confused. As I understand it, a logical reason not to mix, even if it is safe for the frogs and no breeding will occur, is that it can confuse others new to the hobby into thinking it's ok when they come to your house and see the viv. Most people automatically think of it in terms of a fish tank. That is why zoos that display darts in mixed tanks do not help the hobby IMHO.

I think that most of the time, with someone new to the hobby, when they get two frogs of the same species, they are going to have been raised together. They are going to purchase them from the same source. Why would they want to pay for shipping twice in order to get them from 2 different bloodlines? Especially if they are not interested in breeding. So generally, putting two frogs of the same species together will mean that they were raised together. But putting two frogs from different species together pretty much assures that you are grouping frogs that were NOT raised together. i.e. different pathogens and parasites.
Plus, and maybe this is old school, but I was always told that putting frogs together from different locations, could introduce frog A, to a pathogen or parasite from Location B. Frog A's population could have little or no natural defense against said pathogen.
I thought it was good advice that Michael gave him but in his next post the op completely ignored and discarded it.

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Brotherly Monkey

· #13 · Jun 29, 2011

poison beauties said:
NO, and its just not the fear of producing hybrids. Mixing can lead to the spreading of parasites and such from one group to the other as well as chytrid.

Michael

How is this anymore of a concern than when housing the frogs in general?

poison beauties

· #14 · Jun 29, 2011

If I have to explain this in too much depth it will make you look dumb so hows this.......If you have a group of frogs raised together they are already all likely infected with the same parasite, coccidia, chytrid or whatever. That said your choices are test and treat or dont. When you add in a second group it adds to the risk of one group contaminating another. It just adds to the risks. That said you can also end up with a parasite load or chytrid through not being sterile with your husbandry maintanance as well as adding new plants, soil and food.

Michael

Reactions: 1

Brotherly Monkey

· #15 · Jun 29, 2011

poison beauties said:
If I have to explain this in too much depth it will make you look dumb

I'll tell you what, instead of taking your frustrations out on me, for being a general waste of matter, why not just answer the question?

poison beauties said:
so hows this.......If you have a group of frogs raised together they are already all likely infected with the same parasite, coccidia, chytrid or whatever.

Ahh, see, my pointy-headed friend, you specifically raised this issue in relation to mixing frogs, not simply the introduction of new individuals to an already existing group. Hence my question about this being any different than what one would need to deal with, when introducing new frogs, of a similar type

NathanB

· #16 · Jun 29, 2011

Can we take the beginer section out of the new posts lists like the lounge? Every other post is mixing or something like it.

Reactions: 5

poison beauties

· #17 · Jun 29, 2011 (Edited)

Funny, but it still stands as a bigger risk. When you add a frog to an existing viv without testing it you are risking your frogs health. And this gos for adding new frogs of the same species as well. Its not just mixing, its adding a new group of frogs to an Existing one.
There is also talk of stress with introducing new frogs to existing vivs. That said it doesnt fair well for ones already infected. and to add to it would make it worse.

My entire point is it adds to the risk. By bother with it?

That said testing and proper quarentine is the only way to deal with it.

Maybe the beginner section needs more attention. More banners or just ban mixing threads this way neither side can get it started. THere is enough info on it here for the new hobbyists to make their choice. I'd be more than happy to write a full post on the risks of it for you to sticky.

Reactions: 2

Brotherly Monkey

· #18 · Jun 29, 2011

poison beauties said:
Funny, but it still stands as a bigger risk. When you add a frog to an existing viv without testing it you are risking your frogs health. And this gos for adding new frogs of the same species as well. Its not just mixing, its adding a new group of frogs to an Existing one.
There is also talk of stress with introducing new frogs to existing vivs. That said it doesnt fair well for ones already infected. and to add to it would make it worse.

That said testing and proper quarentine is the only way to deal with it.

Again, you specifically raised the issue in relation to mixing, not the general introduction of new individuals. And still haven't outlined why it would be any more of a concern, besides stating "I said so"

poison beauties

· #19 · Jun 29, 2011

Monkey you seem to have a crush on me or something. Lets end this bicker style flirting your doing and walk away. I proved out my thoughts on the 10 gallon issues you hit me with as CO2 being the killer to the idea 10's are just as good as larger vivs.. Im not trying to keep on with it. Im just offering help to someone who asked.

I said it gos for both. Its the basic introduction of new frogs to a viv. The only risk I could see as mixing would for a toxin, parasite or something not common to one species natural habitat being introduced to another as many frogs here go untested and most are imported.. Again I havent had it happen but its more than possible.

I wont repost here in this thread.

Michael

Reactions: 1

Brotherly Monkey

· #20 · Jun 30, 2011

poison beauties said:
Monkey you seem to have a crush on me or something.

clearly, it's almost as if I was under the impression that this was a discussion forum, and trying to flesh out a topic. But clearly having a crush on you makes more sense...

poison beauties said:
Lets end this bicker style flirting your doing and walk away. I proved out my thoughts on the 10 gallon issues you hit me with as CO2 being the killer to the idea 10's are just as good as larger vivs.. Im not trying to keep on with it. Im just offering help to someone who asked.

what are you even talking about?

poison beauties said:
I said it gos for both. Its the basic introduction of new frogs to a viv. The only risk I could see as mixing would for a toxin, parasite or something not common to one species natural habitat being introduced to another as many frogs here go untested and most are imported.. Again I havent had it happen but its more than possible.

No, you originally raised it in relation to mixing, and still have not explained how it actually represents some unique danger in those circumstances

poison beauties said:
I wont repost here in this thread.

clearly a loss for us all...

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