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mixing/multispecies exhibits.

58924 Views 72 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  beachbabe18509
I believe I will take Mr. Yeager up on his invite to continue this discussion.

When referring to mixed enclosuresi the use of the word mixed is an inapt description as this indicates that the animals are together in a homogenized fashion. Because this is not what typically happens multispecies is a better description of the properly set-up enclosure.
Multispecies enclosures are becoming more and more common with the larger and better Zoos (including some of those at the forefront of dendrobatid breeding such as NAIB) and Aquaria. Many of the multispecies enclosures at these institutions have been present for years (some for more than a decade) with little to no problems and in some occasions house multiplegenerations of the animals on exhibit.

There are a lot of issues that are thrown when ever multispecies enclosures are brought up on various forums (not just this one) these include (and I am sure I missed a few),

1) the spatial requirements of the animals are violated
2) pathogens
3) stress

Spatial needs of the animals, this is a issue where some hard and fast numbers have become set in stone in the hobby. Usually, people speak about 5 gallons per frog. To make this simple, I am using the assumption that the 5.5 gallon tank is the standard for the 5 gallons that is the commonly used reference.
Within the 5.5 gallons of space, the space used by the frog (I am going to use a tinct as a standard for the larger dart frogs) is typically very different than the space "alloted". In a typically planted set-up the frog will only use the bottom of the tank most of the time so the actual used total space can be calculated by the surface area of the bottom of the tank (8 inches by 12 inches) and say 3 inches of head room for the frogs to hop. A 5.5 gallon tank contains 960 cubic inches so the frogs only really use 30% (288/960 = 0.3) of the available space or about 1.65 gallons.
What this means is that people have to pay attention to how the tank is portioned out for the frogs. With the set-up described above (5.5 gallon tank) there may be between 4 to 5 inches (substracting for bottom of the tank) of height in the tank that is not used by the dart frog. This would indicate that another species could inhabit that niche if the owner of the enclosure was so inclined. In a manner similar to aquariums, people can look at the enclosure as having an upper portions, a middle portion and a lower portion. In most of the smaller enclosures, this will only be two levels. The other space designates a niche that can potentially be used for a different species. This is where multispecies enclosure planning begins. The person needs to be aware of how much space is really being utilized in the enclosure by the animals. This will give you the first step on the path to the next choice if you wish to keep multispecies enclosures.

After comments (if any), next topic pathogens (last will be criteria to help make the correct choice).

Ed
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Ed,

I don't think this is a good area of the board to have this discussion is in the beginner's section. This is clearly an advanced topic and I think you are giving people the wrong idea that mixing species is ok.

Yes, multispecies enclosures are becoming all the rage. I have seen some very beautiful ones (NAIB comes to mind) and some others which looked as is all the frogs were going to die any day now: no more than dirt, some vines, a fogger and a ton of ground dwelling frogs. I do not want to get into the reasons zoos and institutions are modifying set ups, the reasons are too politically and emotionally charged, but often not all choices implemented are in the best interest of the animal - instead are designed to create a good show and give a facility a "Poison Dart Frog Exhibit".

The planning, $, care and space necessary for such works of art, are not within the realm of the beginning hobbyist. This is an extremely advanced topic.

Our stand on mixing is "Don't do it". The reason we want our beginning customers to be successful!!!

I think a lot of people will read your post; FrogKid already did, and will see that an "Expert" has said it is ok to mix. Regardless of all the disclaimers, people will do what they want to do...

I do hope people don't get the wrong idea from your post. I do think set ups such as these can be done, but I disagree with the area of the board it was posted.

Merry X-mas,

Melis



Ed said:
When referring to mixed enclosuresi the use of the word mixed is an inapt description as this indicates that the animals are together in a homogenized fashion. Because this is not what typically happens multispecies is a better description of the properly set-up enclosure.

Multispecies enclosures are becoming more and more common with the larger and better Zoos (including some of those at the forefront of dendrobatid breeding such as NAIB) and Aquaria. Many of the multispecies enclosures at these institutions have been present for years (some for more than a decade) with little to no problems and in some occasions house multiplegenerations of the animals on exhibit.
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Scott & Justin,

Yes, I do know who Ed is, we had the pleasure of meeting him at IAD. I also am aware of his experience.

I too see what he is saying, but my question is regarding the audience. I think the number 2 question we are asked by beginners is "Can you mix these?"

In some cases, experience is the best teacher. My point in my original post; people will read Ed's post and think "I can mix" - especially in the beginner section.

Hope everyone had a great Holiday!

Melis

Scott said:
I wonder if you folks know who Ed is?

Ed - post it where you need to. I see exactly what you're saying.

s
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