[Moe]

Does anyone see a problem with using MH lighting for terrarium. Seems like my moss is dying no matter how low/high the lighting is. Im currently using a mix between power compacts and full spectrum; but the moss doesnt seem to do so well after a few weeks.

Water, humidity, temps are fine. etc.

M.N

 

[Guest]

I guess it could work, but there are two worries. First, halides produce a lot of heat. Most people with nanoreefs need a chiller, just to keep thier temps down. The upside to this, is that you wouldn't have to heat that room in the winter. Second, certain halides will release UV light. This could sun burn everything from your frogs to your plants. You can get filtered glass to help with this. Do you have the lamp yet? If you are going to buy one, it would be a lot of money. You could just keep replacing your moss every month for a year, before you covered the costs of an electronic metal halide with a good 6500K bulb.

What type of moss do you have? I have mine under screw in 27 watt cfs. Also, test the ph of your water. That can really have an effect.

 

[Guest]

water?

Hey Moe,

It may not be a light issue. What type of water are you using to spray your moss?

BGreen

 

[Moe]

I guess it could work, but there are two worries. First, halides produce a lot of heat. Most people with nanoreefs need a chiller, just to keep thier temps down. The upside to this, is that you wouldn't have to heat that room in the winter. Second, certain halides will release UV light. This could sun burn everything from your frogs to your plants. You can get filtered glass to help with this. Do you have the lamp yet? If you are going to buy one, it would be a lot of money. You could just keep replacing your moss every month for a year, before you covered the costs of an electronic metal halide with a good 6500K bulb.

What type of moss do you have? I have mine under screw in 27 watt cfs. Also, test the ph of your water. That can really have an effect.

As for heat, im already prepared with pc fans and heat sinks. My hood is already 30% screen and 70% glass, though id be making a diy hood for the sockets and fan placement anyway. I'll also leave the halides a few inches above the top,

My moss is pillow moss from a local nursery, and some patches from outside. My substrate is slightly acidic; good for moss. Ie- I place a mix of coco-husk, twigs, rotten leaves and springtails in a garbage bags for a few months. Its decomposed when i pull it out. I know this, because it becomes very warm.

Ben, Water is aged water i leave in a 20g aquarium for a week. Then use a dechlorinizer. I sometimes use distilled water from grocery store; and on summer showers, i try to collect some rainwater. I did have an issue with toxicity that killed most of my frogs (bathroom cleaners got into my source), but that was quickly taken care of.

As stated, it probably doesnt have to do with water issues, etc. I just prefer more light really =)

M.N

 

[TonyT]

Moss

I would have to agree with Ben. When I first started this hobby I could not keep any kind of moss and I had someone tell me the same thing. Hard water kills moss. Now that I use rain water my moss is doing fine. All I use as far lights are a 4' plant light and a 4' white light. Hope this helps a little.

TonyT

 

[Guest]

could be the type of moss. I used moss I found on a camping trip and it died within a few weeks....humidity/high temps probably got to it. I then bought some tropical pillow moss from [email protected] and it is doing fine.

 

[Guest]

I have a reef tank and i can tell you that unless you are looking to fry yoru frogs i woul dnot recomend you using halides in a vivarium, i would try and see if you can use a different type of moss.

 

[melissa68]

Your issue is the water!!!

Tap water (aged or otherwise) leaves a residue on your plants and your moss blocking the light. I would change to distilled water. Doing so will give you some additional benfits.

1. no water spots.
2. healthier for your frogs.
3. healthier for your plants.

Distilled water is PURE water, it is the closest to natural rain water you can find.

RO water is good for fish, but I know of too many people having issues, including death of their frogs if they use it.

Does anyone see a problem with using MH lighting for terrarium. Seems like my moss is dying no matter how low/high the lighting is. Im currently using a mix between power compacts and full spectrum; but the moss doesnt seem to do so well after a few weeks.

Water, humidity, temps are fine. etc.

M.N

 

[skinnybonedog]

Melis,

What kind of other problems? I have used RO water for 4 years now...moss and orchids do really well and other than a few unexplainable frog deaths, that I could in no way contribute to RO water (seems all of my frogs would have died had the RO been the culprit or at least many more than a few)....I have had no problems. What is it about RO water that you think could be the problem...from my understanding RO and distilled are very similar.

Tammy

 

[melissa68]

Unexplained deaths

Tammy,

I think everyone has unexplained deaths, that is just part of caring for these wonderful froggies. Even zoos, with a lot more resources than we could ever have have unexplained deaths.

Give me a few minutes to throw together a post of the differences between distilled, ro and dionized water. I might put up a new topic, because I am sure there will be some good conversation.

From what I have been able to learn, the different types of water from the purest to the least pure are:

1. dionized
2. distilled
3. ro
4. or 2.5. rain (might go between ro & distilled)
5. tap & well


I will put together another post and give you the info.

melis

 

[Dancing frogs]

metal halide

As you can see from the other replies, there is an issue with heat, but as long as you keep the MH far enough away from the top of the tank it shouldn't be a big deal. 6-12" would be about right. I have been playing around with them for a few months, I'm currently using a 175W over a 37 gallon tank to get it growing before putting in the animals, and the plant growth is great, the Tillandsia ionathas are all pink and flowering, the orchids are blooming, basicly the plants are doing great, and the light or associated heat aren't hurting anything, though I plan on using a 70watt Iwasaki 6500K bulb when I put the animals in.
One aspect of MH that I like for larger tanks is you can put it on one end of the tank, then the animals have a temp and light gradient, so they can go wherever they feel comfotable. The light also penetrates the "canopy" farther. I think I prefer the color rendering of the CF's better though. I've tried several MH bulbs with CRI's in the 90's and the CF's seem more balanced color wise. Another thing to note is that the CF's, particularly from 55watts up, are more efficiant than most halides that would be suitible for viv use.
Good luck, have fun

 

[Dancing frogs]

link

Oh yeah I almost forgot, here is a link to a site on UV, and lighting.
http://www.aquarium-design.com/reef/uvlighting.html

 

[Guest]

As far as heat is concerned, a 175watt MH will put out the same amount of heat as 175 watts of CF. Watts are after all a measure of total energy output (heat + light) and in the end the light becomes heat anyway (not accounting for a small amount of photosynthesis). The differences is a 175watt MH bulb is a lot smaller than the same in CF tubes, this makes the MH warmer in temperature even though it is putting out the same amount of heat energy(+/- 5% for efficiency). In other words if you want to use a MH, go for it, just make sure you use the same amount of spacing and ventilation as you would for a lot of CF lighting. I use both and have no real preference except that CF does have a better color than any MH I've found so far.

Also, tap water may kill moss depending on the quality of the water.
If you have money to spend on an MH system you might want to pick up an RO system while you're out.

Happy froggin
joe

 

[Moe]

Thanks everyone for the replies; i think alot of people are assuming this tank is small. (yea, i probably should have mentioned this before..)

Its 3x3x5 feet which will be used for Phelsuma.

1x175 with a few compacts would be nice. Thanks again.
M.N

 

[Guest]

On the topic of water,

RO (reverse osmosis) is one of many methods for purifying water.
Distilled water is a generic term for purified water.
you can distill water either with RO, deionization, filtration, or convection (boiling)
From all the research, most people say that RO water is so pure that it actually leeches the minerals and chemicals out of the frogs. However, if you research the physics of osmosis and absorption, this is not true. it seems to be an urban myth that your water can be "too pure" next time you go to buy water look at the label. mine says "Distilled Water; method of distillation: Reverse Osmosis" I have seen other brands that advertise chemical filtration, and some that are deionized.

RO water is actually pure to the point of sterile. This is what hospitals use to flush wounds during surgery. I plan on using distilled water in my frog tanks, no matter the process, the differences, i am sure are minimal.

On heat, MH lights burned the livin bejesus out of my orchids. i just use a lot of CF and full spectrum. The only plant i have gotten to thrive under a MH (in a terrarium/ tank environment) is cacti. MH is a lot of money for something you dont really need. There is such a thing as "too Much of a Good thing"

 

[Moe]

So, looks like ill be able to get 2x75's for cheap. I'll let you know how it goes. =)

M.N

 

[Guest]

Do you mean a 2 x 175W ? I don't recall any 75W bulbs.

 

[Moe]

no, 75W'ers

Edit : i meant 2x70W sorry

M.N

 

[Dancing frogs]

I plan on using Halide light for my Peacock day geckos as well. The combination of heat and UV would seem to suit them well. Anyways I plan on using a 70watt Iwasaki 6500K bulb, oriented over one end of my 37 gallon tank, designated as the basking area. If you plan on going with the 70watt bulbs, there is a guy on ebay that has been selling real nice electronic ballasts for about 55 bucks each. If it were my cage (the 3x3x5') I think I would go with a single halide in the 175-400 watt range, oriented over one end so as to create a warmer area and a cooler area, as well as get away from the light if they want too.
Just my .03!

 

[Guest]

On the topic of water,

RO (reverse osmosis) is one of many methods for purifying water.
Distilled water is a generic term for purified water.
you can distill water either with RO, deionization, filtration, or convection (boiling)

Actually this is not entirely accurate. Distilled water is a specific means of purifying water in which the water is heated to the point of evaporation. The water vapor then travels up a chamber where it condenses. This condensation is collected. When water evaporates, any dissolved metals or impurities remain as scale. RO, DI or any other means of filtration are not forms of distillation. One thing to watch out for with distilled water is that according to rumor some distillers use copper piping, this could pose a big problem to darts. That being said i've used distilled water for small reef tanks in the past and never had a problem.

RO water is actually pure to the point of sterile. This is what hospitals use to flush wounds during surgery. I plan on using distilled water in my frog tanks, no matter the process, the differences, i am sure are minimal.

RO water is very pure however it is not entirely pure. Typical TDS (total dissolved solids) readings for RO water are ~5ppm. On my reef tank water purification system I use an RO feeding into a deionization unit and achieve 0ppm TDS emerging from the DI. Now this is really pure RO water is generally considered safe to drink, DI (deionized) water is not.