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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know why Mantella cowanii and Mantella pulchra are not available? The obvious answer would be because they're not imported, but just wondering if there were any other specific reasons for their absence. Also what is the general opinion of mixing darts and mantellas in a large (like 125 gal) tank? *now excuse me while I hide myself from the bunt objects and molitov cocktails about to be thrown at me* :lol:
 

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My understanding is that the cowanii are more threatened, and so are not collected and exported. I think their habitat range is also much smaller than the mainstay mantellas in the hobby. I once had some, they were very shy while I had them. I would love to try them again, now that I have a generator and can temp. control my frogs in a power outage. (that's how I lost most of my mantellas many years ago)

As for mixing... don't. Its a bad idea for several reasons, one of the most rational being that most mantellas these days are still WC, and so carry a parasitic load, and one that is not native to places that darts come from. So, a mantella with parasite A might be able to survive, but a dart with the same might not. The frogs are from two very different continents. I would suggest keeping each in a vivarium that shows them off, and appreciate their differences, rather than lumping them together in one tank.
 

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mantella's and darts

FIrst off, mantella pulchra are still readily available. You can order them from many places. Xtremereptiles.com, reptiledepot, and many others carry them. As for the mantella cowanii, they are strictly distributed to a very small range in madagascar, and might be protected. Right now, there is not very many mantella exports being done as far as I understand. The only few species are the most common type found, such as some expectata, some viridis, betsileo, pulchra, and baroni. As for the others, they are to endangered as we for what we know. So, don't get any hopes up for some cowanii.

Second topic, DO NOT MIX DARTS WITH MANTELLA'S. It is not a good idea. What the other guy said about parasites is one very true thing, as well as types of bacteria or other diseases a mantella might be immune to could totally wipe out your darts. Second, mantella's typically require much cooler temps than most dart frogs. MOst mantella's will not tolerate temps over 75 for long periods of time, and need a 65degree nighttime temperature. Then, they both have different habitats, and there is no way you can supply each species with its own specific habitat. There would have to be a compromise somewhere, and mantella's just don't need that kind of stress. Then there is also the fact that many wildcaught mantella's can still be toxic. This could most definitely have a negative effect on the darts. So, there are many good reasons not to mix these two species, but I can't see any good reasons too mix them. Both of darts and mantella's are just too rare of jewels to take these kinds of chances with. FOr the sake of your frogs, don't be foolish. But, good luck, and as for pulchra, they are the least colorful mantella, and the shyest species. THey will hide much more often then you might like. But, other than that, they are great critters. Icurrently have 1 female pulchra, and she is nothing like what all the books say she should be. She is outgoing, beautiful, and very aggressive towards other males. :D
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thank you for your replies. Rompida, I'm very sorry to hear you lost your collection. I was kind of already aware of the disease thing, and I was assuming the mantellas would either be cb or at least long term captives that have been treated for parasites, forgot to mention that. As for the alkaloids that wc mantellas have, it might affect the darts, it might not (probably not in such a large tank.)

MantellaPrince, I can hardly see how the general habitats for darts and mantellas are THAT much different (besides temp and presence of broms), maybe you can clarify that for me :wink: .

lol this all being said, it was more a theoretical question, as I don't have much room left for more frogs, I will only be getting my favorite darts (my main interest). thanks for the replies!

Dustin
 

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Believe me dustin, they have incredibly different habitats. I really recommend you pick up the book, "mantella's" by marc staniszewski. It explains each species of mantella's habitats. Such as mantella viridis require running water over something such as a rock pile, and/or a stream which can be dried up, with temperatures at 66 to 75 and a humidity between 75 to 90. I know that MOST darts do not tolerate temperatures. Any mantella besides expectata can not tolerate temps around 80 for extended periods of time. Maybe a few hours tops. This will kill them. If you keep it to cool, your darts will suffer, so all in all, it just isn't a good thing to do. I mean, if you want to risk it, I cant stop you, but from what all I have done, and read, I would strongly disagree with it. Oh, and some mantella's do have the presence of bromeliads in their habitats. Sorry if I seem a little rude, I just hate to see such rare species be mistreated or threatened. So, if you do ever have the room, just give each species their own individual tanks. Good luck with your darts,

Ed
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well Ed, first off thanks for the suggestions! I honestly wasn't aware of malagasy bromeliads...please, tell me more about them. The stream would be a given (in this imaginary enclosure, which will probably never exist) and the temps would be low. To give you an idea of how low, I actually had a pair of U. Phantasticus for a while and they thrived perfectly at room temp, and if you know phant leaf tails, you know they can't stand anything above 75F max. I know the tincs like the house temp b/c they have been laying at least 1 furtile clutch each week. And my fants are all eating like champs and are very active (but dont like to be seen :wink: ). I know for a fact that the conditions in my house would be suitible for both darts and mantellas. O and just curious, I see you live in Utah, will you be attending NWFF?
 

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sorry joker, I was unable to find a picture of a malagasy bromeliad, but I did find a few references too them, such as "Near the Petite Cascade is a path known as the Jardin Botanique, a forest track with a good mix of interesting and bizarre vegetation, including orchids, palms, lianas and bromeliads." Just do some searching if you want to, since I didn't feel like it. As for a stream, they are not all that hard to build. I constructed a small section of one inside my m. viridis terrarium. I used a false bottom, a natural rock pile which was the water feed spot, which flowed into a stream, and goes about 8 inches into a small pond. I know not ALL darts like hotter temps than mantella's. Some actually like cooler temps don't they??? COngrats on your leuc's, that is awsome. Do they have a high mortality rate, or are leuc's pretty good at surviving as young?? I read that mantella juvies have a high mortality rate, but I will find out soon. As for the NWFF, I would love to go, but I am not sure if I can. I will think about it though. ANyway, good luck with your frogs. And I am sorry if I was rude or anything, I just don't like the idea of mixing darts and mantella's, and they do have somewhat similar, but somewhat different habitats. Each individual species of mantella's habitats differ from each other species' of mantella's habitats, besides pulchra and baroni. But that is just getting down to the nitty gritty. They will survive in a habitat designed for a dart, as long as temps prove to be ok. ANyway, see ya later.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
MantellaPrince, that sounds like a nice tank, I wouldn't mind seeing pics of your mantella collection. It sounds huge, and for some reason keeping things in colonies has always appealed to me.

To my knowledge tinc eggs are pretty sturdy (whatever you can consider sturdy), but no deaths so far. I have 2 cluthes going right now and some tads on the way to frogletts and I see no sign of them being delicate after the initial hatching period.

I respect the fact that you don't like to mix species, many people share that opinion. I just can't picture someone getting in my face about it in person the way some people do on this forum, and that, I have trouble respecting. Anyway glad to hear someone is propigating such a large variety of mantella, keep up the good work.

Dustin
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Joker,
Im not sure how true this is but ive been told that some of the harder to get Mantellas are usually located in very remote or difficult to reach areas. As well as dry season vs wet seasons at time of collecting them. So if Mantella viridis are more easily collected , thats what we get. This summer i was able to purchase M.viridis, M.baroni, M.milotympanum (w.c. but very healthy and laying clutches within 1 week, non fertile) and M.crocea. So Id think that as mentioned in a earlier post do some deeper searching and you may find them in a c.b. stock, good luck :D
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
lol thank you for the tip zoso, i really appreciate it, but if you read further back in the thread, the tank I was ranting about was theoretical...although I wouldn't mind trying my hand on some mantellas. Congrats on the eggs, keep us all up on how they're doing.

Dustin
 

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Yes, one of the main reasons M. cowani is not as readily available as other species is because most of their populations live in steep moss-covered rock faces and ledges that are difficult to reach. I heard that they have placed a ban on exporting certain species to let them recover from over-collection which is probably another reason why we haven't seen any wild caught aurantiaca, cowani and other high demand species available in a year or two.
 
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