[Shade71]

So I've read a lot of other posts and I have a good grasp of the temps, humidity, their natural environment, etc.
I'm wondering about their boldness.
On a scale of Terribilis, Tincs or Auratus where do these little guys fall?
I'm wondering how much cover to provide.
My Terribilis make a point of avoiding cover during the day while my Auratus are never far from cover (my Tincs fall in between).
I've provided sleeping spots to hole up in but I'm wondering just how wide open the rest of the tank should (or should not) be.
I read they come from grassy/rocky plains but I'm not sure if that means they enjoy wide open spaces above them during the day or if they spend their time in small shady micro-climates near boulders.

Thanks.

 

[Colleen53]

I have 6 of them and they do not like it to be very moist in their tank. On the dry side. The females love to eat, but most of the day, they are just lying around in out of site places. When food comes, they come. Very slow moving guys. I enjoy them as they are clumsy and cute! Hope that helps you.

 

[wesleybrouwer]

They do like to be kept somewhat dryer,
only in breeding season there will be pools due to the rain.
They mainly live in bushlands/grasslands (if that is the proper English name for it )
Yet again, i believe in the US the specimens sold as stelzneri are in fact klappenbachi as well, at least, around here that is the case.

 

[Shade71]

It would be nice if the species and origins of these little toads was recorded a little bit better. From searching around I'm beginning to get the impression I really have no idea which species I actually have (though it sounds like care is all fairly similar).
When I was looking up M Klappenbachi it mentioned the habitat is shrubland while stelzneri lives in grassland.
I had a couple of these types of toads years ago and they were only half the size of what I currently have, so I wonder what they were.
These are what I currently have...

 

[wesleybrouwer]

The ones you have right now are klappenbachi,
i'm 100% sure on that.
Care seems to be somewhat similair,
but most caresheets written on stelzneri are actually made by people keeping klappenbachi.
The mix up might have to do with the name change a while back,
M.stelzneri stelzneri became M.klappenbachi.

 

[Colleen53]

Those pictures look like my toads.

FEMALE

MALE

FEMALE

 

[Ed]

The ones you have right now are klappenbachi,
i'm 100% sure on that.
Care seems to be somewhat similair,
but most caresheets written on stelzneri are actually made by people keeping klappenbachi.
The mix up might have to do with the name change a while back,
M.stelzneri stelzneri became M.klappenbachi.

Do you have a reference that changes M. stelzneri stelzneri to M. klappenbachi? I can't find that change in the literature.. In the literature I can locate; M.s. fulvoguttatus was changed to M. klappenbachi... If you are using the wrong nomenclature, then you may be keying them out incorrectly....

 

[stemcellular]

They are the same as those that began coming into the U.S. starting in April 2010. I received the first group that were imported and they are still going strong!

 

[wesleybrouwer]

I don't know in what literature they mention a name change from M.s fulvoguttatus to klappenbachi?

The name changes i found in the descriptions of the species, and in places around the web, is that the M. stelzneri fulvoguttatus was concidered a subspecies of stelzneri but became a species on it's own, M.fulvoguttatus.

The other reviewed specimen was stelzneri stelzneri, i can't find the pdf on klappenbachi as quick as i found the description of the change from fulvoguttatus.
I'll post the link underneath for you to read.
Maybe then you'll see that there is a lot of wrong information around the web concerning this species, along with others.
Recently i found a renowned site showing wrong pictures with R.reinwardtii as well, with this toads, pictures are more off then right.

The real stelzneri is not from Paraguay, but from Argentinia and Brasil.

The differences between these 3 are easy to spot when you've read the descriptions and saw the holotypes.
I'll post some as well so you can see the differences.
Maybe you can compare them to the descriptions to see if i'm off on this one.
As soon as i find the pdf i'm looking for i'll send it to you.

Differences between klappenbachi and fulvoguttatus are:

M.klappenbachi: dorsal: large, irregular yellow spots, sometimes black in the yellow spots, yellow spots or blotches dorsally inter-ocular group which forms an irregular band, has a straighter head profile;

M.fulvoguttatus: dorsal: many small, regular yellow spots, not black in the yellow stains, no yellow spot or spots dorsally inter-ocular group which forms an irregular band, has a more rounded head profile

M.stelzneri shows most resemblance to klappenbachi.
Only there is no black in the yellow blotches, also the yellow "mustache" isn't found in the stelzneri but does occur in most of the klappenbachi.
Also the back of the stelzneri shows no spots or blotches.

Article about fulvoguttatus:
http://acd.ufrj.br/~museuhp/CP/Bol-Zool/BolZool2003/Bol%20Zool%20500.pdf


This are the pictures:

M.klappenbachi

M.fulvoguttatus

M.stelzneri

 

[stemcellular]

hey, those are my frogs!

 

[Ed]

I'm not sure that elevation to full speices is accepted as of yet as a lot of the literature published subsequent to that article does not elevate those two subspecies to full species status.

As for the part of the web for where I am looking for the species description I am searching the herp journals and as I noted I couldn't find the information you brought to the discussion.

I know that stelzneri does not range into Paraguay but how do you know that they did not originate from Argentina? There are reports that Melanophryniscus are exported for the pet trade from Argentina...

 

[wesleybrouwer]

hey, those are my frogs!

Haha, one of the best i could find on them
Hope you don't mind i posted them? Otherwise i'll look up some others.

 

[wesleybrouwer]

I'm not sure that elevation to full speices is accepted as of yet as a lot of the literature published subsequent to that article does not elevate those two subspecies to full species status.

As for the part of the web for where I am looking for the species description I am searching the herp journals and as I noted I couldn't find the information you brought to the discussion.

I know that stelzneri does not range into Paraguay but how do you know that they did not originate from Argentina? There are reports that Melanophryniscus are exported for the pet trade from Argentina...

I'm certain they approved the species status.
Here for example you see the former name of M.fulvoguttatus is M.s.fulvoguttatus :
Melanophryniscus fulvoguttatus - Wikispecies

For the specimens in Europe, i know that they were imported from Paraguay, they even mentioned that it were M.stelzneri originating from Paraguay.
The specimens shown are exactly the same as we got in here as well.
I only seldom saw real stelzneri and fulvoguttatus.
Most people are keeping the klappenbachi.

Looking at the pictures with the caresheets, most people are actually keeping and breeding with M.stelzneri from Paraguay, klappenbachi at the moment. The other species from Paraguay can be easily distinguished,
those are the fulvoguttatus.
I truely believe that the mix up is because of the former stelzneri family in which they were seen as sub-species.

 

[wesleybrouwer]

former stelzneri family

That must be group

 

[Ed]

That must be group

Yes, there are several groupings of species in this genus, Depending on the author and year it varies between 11 and 23 species, and three or four groups. For simplicity I left it as the three groups.

1) the moreirae group
2) the stelzneri group
3) and the third group is the tumifrons group

M. klappenbachi wasn't described until 2000 and I still can't find any indication that stelzneri was reduced to synomy with klappenbachi (or that change was accepted in the literature) .

 

[Shade71]

Thanks for all the info so far.
I've been back and forth between here and the IUCN site and a few other sites and I think I'm actually forming a slightly less confusing picture of just what my toads are and what their natural habitat might look like (I'm also beginning to learn the provinces of Argentina - I feel so smart).