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Hi Ed,

Are you taking the position that N. kaiseri is not endangered? Has the status of the conditions under which smuggling occured "in the past" changed so that smuggling today is not possible?

Richard.
Richard,

The converse is also true... when looking at offerings for wild caught animals one has to also consider the captive lifespan of the animals... The fact that they are endagered and that they have been smuggled in the past, doesn't permit us to jump to conclusions without more data. Given the lifespan of this species doesn't mean that at this point we can even be sure that wc animals were smuggled.

This species has also been managed in the pet hobby in Europe for decades.
 

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Perhaps the population is crashing in the wild from climate change?
 

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The primary smuggling point was via Ukraine. I would think/hope that the relatively recent Cites listing would put a damper on smuggling. Availability and pricing at this point in time should hopefully render smuggling a not very lucrative endeavor. Iran never exported this species, so theoretically all animals in captivity are "illegal". They whole issue can just go 'round and 'round and 'round...

Thank God they seem to breed freely. Perhaps they warrant a higher price based on over-the-top looks? I'm sure when everyones progeny flood the market, a "fixed" price will stabilize? JVK
When looking at exports of species reports according to the country of origin, one has to look at the history of the country and the probability that it has accurate records.. As this genus was not listed on CITES until recently, it did not have to be reported as being imported/exported other than on any required documents. However there is good data that this species was legally removed in the 1970s and again in the 1990s and then captive propegated since then.... See Schultschik, G, and Steinfartz, S. (1996) Ergebnisse einer herpetologischen Exkursion in den Iran (Results of a herpetological excursion to Iran). Herpetozoa 9:91-95

There are a number of species in the hobby that fall into grey areas because of these issues.

In this case, we do know that there were smuggling incidents that at this time appear to have significantly impacted the wild population, but this species also has a significant history in the pet trade in other countries (and legal exports to the US).
 

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None of that contradicts the reference I gave you...

Ed
 

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I don't usually advocate violence or terror tactics, but perhaps we could brainwash a few newts to allow us to rig a few to explode when touched by collectors, thus launching a Jihad against the collectors! :eek:
 

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Good one, Dave.

I have actually had a dream about creating an international incident (covered by CNN's Anderson Cooper) over the newts by trying to sneak back into Iran with a backpack full of captive-born newts to try to release. The only downside to my plan is the great likelihood of being imprisoned for several years or perhaps being executed.

The newts are worth it, but then who would take care of my frogs and the two huskies?

Take care, Richard.

I don't usually advocate violence or terror tactics, but perhaps we could brainwash a few newts to allow us to rig a few to explode when touched by collectors, thus launching a Jihad against the collectors! :eek:
 

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Hi i run a non-profit in california. And ine of our projects is to help with endangered and treatened reptiles. The kaiser is the first animal we will be working on.

We are looking to adopt any from owners who can no longer care for them.
We are looking for babies from various breeders. We want a wide variety in gene lool to ensure healthy colonies.
Please get in contact with me with any information you may. Have on people who have some available. I have been looking for months and cant find any.

Many thanks
John from laralc.com
[email protected]
 

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Here are the species that have been banned/regulated:

The species are:
(1) Chioglossa lusitanica (golden striped salamander).
(2) Cynops chenggongensis (Chenggong fire-bellied newt).
(3) Cynops cyanurus (blue-tailed fire-bellied newt).
(4) Cynops ensicauda (sword-tailed newt).
(5) Cynops fudingensis (Fuding fire-bellied newt).
(6) Cynops glaucus (bluish grey newt, Huilan Rongyuan).
(7) Cynops orientalis (Oriental fire belly newt, Oriental fire-bellied newt).
(8) Cynops orphicus (no common name).
(9) Cynops pyrrhogaster (Japanese newt, Japanese fire-bellied newt).
(10) Cynops wolterstorffi (Kunming Lake newt).
(11) Euproctus montanus (Corsican brook salamander).
(12) Euproctus platycephalus (Sardinian brook salamander).
(13) Hydromantes ambrosii (Ambrosi salamander).
(14) Hydromantes brunus (limestone salamander).
(15) Hydromantes flavus (Mount Albo cave salamander).
(16) Hydromantes genei (Sardinian cave salamander).
(17) Hydromantes imperialis (imperial cave salamander).
(18) Hydromantes italicus (Italian cave salamander).
(19) Hydromantes platycephalus (Mount Lyell salamander).
(20) Hydromantes sarrabusensis (no common name).
(21) Hydromantes shastae (Shasta salamander).
(22) Hydromantes strinatii or Speleomantes strinatii (French cave salamander, Strinati’s cave salamander).
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(23) Hydromantes supramontis (Supramonte cave salamander).
(24) Hynobius abei (Abe’s salamander).
(25) Hynobius amakusaensis (Amakusa-sanshouo).
(26) Hynobius amjiensis (Anji salamander).
(27) Hynobius arisanensis (Arisan hynobid).
(28) Hynobius boulengeri (Odaigahara salamander).
(29) Hynobius chinensis (Chinese salamander).
(30) Hynobius dunni (Oita salamander).
(31) Hynobius formosanus (Taiwan salamander).
(32) Hynobius fucus or Hynobius fuca (Taiwan lesser salamander).
(33) Hynobius glacialis (Nanhu salamander).
(34) Hynobius guabangshanensis (no common name).
(35) Hynobius hidamontanus (Hakuba salamander).
(36) Hynobius hirosei (no common name).
(37) Hynobius katoi (Akaishi sansho-uo).
(38) Hynobius kimurae (Hida salamander).
(39) Hynobius leechii (northeastern China hynobiid salamander).
(40) Hynobius lichenatus (northeast salamander).
(41) Hynobius maoershanensis (no common name).
(42) Hynobius naevius (blotched salamander).
(43) Hynobius nebulosus (misty salamander).
(44) Hynobius nigrescens (black salamander).
(45) Hynobius okiensis (Oki salamander).
(46) Hynobius osumiensis (Osumi-sanshouo).
(47) Hynobius quelpaertensis (no common name).
(48) Hynobius retardatus (Hokkaido salamander).
(49) Hynobius shinichisatoi (Sobo-sanshouo).
(50) Hynobius sonani (Sonan’s hynobiid).
(51) Hynobius stejnegeri (Bekko Sansho-uo).
(52) Hynobius takedai (Hokuriku Sansho-uo).
(53) Hynobius tokyoensis (Tokyo salamander).
(54) Hynobius tsuensis (Tsushima Sansho-uo).
(55) Hynobius turkestanicus (Turkestanian salamander).
(56) Hynobius yangi (no common name).
(57) Hynobius yatsui (no common name).
(58) Hynobius yiwuensis (Yiwu hynobiid).
(59) Ichthyosaura alpestris (alpine newt).
(60) Lissotriton boscai (Bosca’s newt).
(61) Lissotriton helveticus (palmate newt).
(62) Lissotriton italicus (Italian newt).
(63) Lissotriton kosswigi (Triton pontue de Kosswig).
(64) Lissotriton lantzi (no common name).
(65) Lissotriton montandoni (Carpathian newt).
(66) Lissotriton vulgaris (smooth newt).
(67) Neurergus crocatus (no common name).
(68) Neurergus derjugini or Neurergus microspilotus (Kurdistan newt).
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(69) Neurergus kaiseri (Lorestan newt, Luristan newt, emperor spotted newt, Zagros newt, Iranian harlequin newt, kaiser newt).
(70) Neurergus strauchii (no common name).
(71) Notophthalmus meridionalis (black-spotted newt).
(72) Notophthalmus perstriatus (striped newt).
(73) Notophthalmus viridescens (eastern newt).
(74) Onychodactylus fischeri (long-tailed clawed salamander).
(75) Onychodactylus fuscus (Tadami clawed salamander).
(76) Onychodactylus intermedius (Bandai clawed salamander).
(77) Onychodactylus japonicus (Japanese clawed salamander).
(78) Onychodactylus kinneburi (Shikoku clawed salamander).
(79) Onychodactylus koreanus (Korai-Sansyouo).
(80) Onychodactylus nipponoborealis (Riben Bei Zhaoni).
(81) Onychodactylus tsukubaensis (Tsukuba clawed salamander).
(82) Onychodactylus zhangyapingi (Jilin Zhaoni).
(83) Onychodactylus zhaoermii (Liaoning).
(84) Paramesotriton caudopunctatus (spot-tailed warty newt).
(85) Paramesotriton chinensis (Chinese warty newt).
(86) Paramesotriton deloustali (no common name).
(87) Paramesotriton fuzhongensis (no common name).
(88) Paramesotriton guanxiensis (Guangxi warty newt).
(89) Paramesotriton hongkongensis (no common name).
(90) Paramesotriton labiatus (spotless stout newt).
(91) Paramesotriton longliensis (no common name).
(92) Paramesotriton maolanensis (no common name).
(93) Paramesotriton qixilingensis (no common name).
(94) Paramesotriton wulingensis (no common name).
(95) Paramesotriton yunwuensis (no common name).
(96) Paramesotriton zhijinensis (no common name).
(97) Plethodon ainsworthi (Catahoula salamander, bay springs salamander).
(98) Plethodon albagula (western slimy salamander).
(99) Plethodon amplus (Blue Ridge gray-cheeked salamander).
(100) Plethodon angusticlavius (Ozark salamander, Ozark zigzag salamander).
(101) Plethodon asupak (Scott Bar salamander).
(102) Plethodon aureolus (Tellico salamander).
(103) Plethodon caddoensis (Caddo Mountain salamander).
(104) Plethodon chattahoochee (Chattahoochee slimy salamander).
(105) Plethodon cheoah (Cheoah bald salamander).
(106) Plethodon chlorobryonis (Atlantic Coast slimy salamander).
(107) Plethodon cinereus (eastern red-backed salamander, redback salamander, salamandre rayée, red-backed salamander).
(108) Plethodon cylindraceus (white-spotted slimy salamander).
(109) Plethodon dorsalis (zigzag salamander, northern zigzag salamander).
(110) Plethodon dunni (Dunn’s salamander).
(111) Plethodon electromorphus (northern ravine salamander).
(112) Plethodon elongatus (Del Norte salamander).
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(113) Plethodon fourchensis (Fourche Mountain salamander).
(114) Plethodon glutinosus (slimy salamander, northern slimy salamander).
(115) Plethodon grobmani (southeastern slimy salamander).
(116) Plethodon hoffmani (valley and ridge salamander).
(117) Plethodon hubrichti (Peaks of Otter salamander).
(118) Plethodon idahoensis (Coeur d’Alene salamander).
(119) Plethodon jordani (Appalachian salamander, red-cheeked salamander, Jordan's salamander).
(120) Plethodon kentucki (Kentucky salamander, Cumberland Plateau salamander).
(121) Plethodon kiamichi (Kiamichi slimy salamander).
(122) Plethodon kisatchie (Louisiana slimy salamander).
(123) Plethodon larselli (Larch Mountain salamander).
(124) Plethodon meridianus (South Mountain gray-cheeked salamander, southern gray-cheeked salamander).
(125) Plethodon metcalfi (southern gray-cheeked salamander).
(126) Plethodon mississippi (Mississippi slimy salamander).
(127) Plethodon montanus (northern gray-cheeked salamander).
(128) Plethodon neomexicanus (Jemez Mountains salamander).
(129) Plethodon nettingi (Cheat Mountain salamander).
(130) Plethodon ocmulgee (Ocmulgee slimy salamander).
(131) Plethodon ouachitae (Rich Mountain salamander).
(132) Plethodon petraeus (Pigeon Mountain salamander).
(133) Plethodon punctatus (white-spotted salamander, cow knob salamander).
(134) Plethodon richmondi (southern ravine salamander, ravine salamander).
(135) Plethodon savannah (Savannah slimy salamander).
(136) Plethodon sequoyah (Sequoyah slimy salamander).
(137) Plethodon serratus (southern red-backed salamander).
(138) Plethodon shenandoah (Shenandoah salamander).
(139) Plethodon sherando (Big Levels salamander).
(140) Plethodon shermani (red-legged salamander).
(141) Plethodon stormi (Siskiyou Mountains salamander).
(142) Plethodon teyahalee (Southern Appalachian salamander).
(143) Plethodon vandykei (Van ****’s salamander).
(144) Plethodon variolatus (South Carolina slimy salamander).
(145) Plethodon vehiculum (western red-backed salamander).
(146) Plethodon ventralis (southern zigzag salamander).
(147) Plethodon virginia (Shenandoah Mountain salamander).
(148) Plethodon websteri (Webster’s salamander).
(149) Plethodon wehrlei (Wehrle’s salamander).
(150) Plethodon welleri (Weller’s salamander).
(151) Plethodon yonahlossee (Yonahlossee salamander).
(152) Pleurodeles nebulosus (no common name).
(153) Pleurodeles poireti (Algerian newt).
(154) Pleurodeles waltl (Spanish newt).
(155) Salamandra algira (Algerian salamander).
(156) Salamandra atra (alpine salamander).
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(157) Salamandra corsica (Corsican fire salamander).
(158) Salamandra infraimmaculata (no common name).
(159) Salamandra lanzai (Lanza’s alpine salamander, Salamandra di Lanza).
(160) Salamandra salamandra (fire salamander).
(161) Salamandrella keyserlingii (Siberian newt).
(162) Salamandrella tridactyla (no common name).
(163) Salamandrina perspicillata (northern spectacled salamander).
(164) Salamandrina terdigitata (southern spectacled salamander).
(165) Siren intermedia (lesser siren).
(166) Siren lacertina (greater siren).
(167) Taricha granulosa (rough-skinned newt).
(168) Taricha rivularis (red-bellied newt).
(169) Taricha sierrae (Sierra newt).
(170) Taricha torosa (California newt).
(171) Triturus carnifex (Italian crested newt).
(172) Triturus cristatus (great crested newt).
(173) Triturus dobrogicus (Danube crested newt).
(174) Triturus hongkongensis (no common name)
(175) Triturus ivanbureschi (Balkan-Anatolian crested newt, Buresch’s crested newt).
(176) Triturus karelinii (Southern crested newt).
(177) Triturus macedonicus (no common name).
(178) Triturus marmoratus (marbled newt).
(179) Triturus pygmaeus (pygmy marbled newt).
(180) Triturus vittatus (no common name).
(181) Tylototriton anguliceps (angular-headed newt).
(182) Tylototriton asperrimus (black knobby newt).
(183) Tylototriton broadoridgus (no common name).
(184) Tylototriton dabienicus (no common name).
(185) Tylototriton daweishanensis (no common name).
(186) Tylototriton hainanensis (Hainan knobby newt).
(187) Tylototriton kweichowensis (red-tailed knobby newt).
(188) Tylototriton liuyangensis (no common name).
(189) Tylototriton lizhenchangi (Mangshan crocodile newt).
(190) Tylototriton notialis (no common name).
(191) Tylototriton panhai (no common name).
(192) Tylototriton pseudoverrucosus (southern Sichuan crocodile newt).
(193) Tylototriton shanjing (Yunnan newt).
(194) Tylototriton shanorum (no common name).
(195) Tylototriton taliangensis (Thailand newt).
(196) Tylototriton uyenoi (no common name).
(197) Tylototriton verrucosus (Himalayan newt).
(198) Tylototriton vietnamensis (no common name).
(199) Tylototriton wenxianensis (Wenxian knobby newt).
(200) Tylototriton yangi (Tiannan crocodile newt).
(201) Tylototriton ziegleri (Ziegler’s crocodile newt).

JBear
 
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