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it really depends on your tank, setup, etc...

if you reference my recently made thread(s) on the subject of LEDs and lighting, they are NOT currently the way to go.


LED lights do *NOT* put out as full of a spectrum as MH or even T5HO bulbs and as such much be adjusted appropriately. If you are willing to put in the time, effort, and MONEY to build an appropriately working LED light, then in the long run you spend less on electricity....

but, LEDs are still very expensive....you can try checking out lightyourreptiles.com a site sponsor who has some LED screw-in bulbs you can check out those may be worthwhile.

but I repeat, it really depends on your tank, setup, budget, etc...
 

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it really depends on your tank, setup, etc...

if you reference my recently made thread(s) on the subject of LEDs and lighting, they are NOT currently the way to go.


LED lights do *NOT* put out as full of a spectrum as MH or even T5HO bulbs and as such much be adjusted appropriately. If you are willing to put in the time, effort, and MONEY to build an appropriately working LED light, then in the long run you spend less on electricity....

but, LEDs are still very expensive....you can try checking out lightyourreptiles.com a site sponsor who has some LED screw-in bulbs you can check out those may be worthwhile.

but I repeat, it really depends on your tank, setup, budget, etc...
Why are they NOT they way to go when people are having wonderful results with them using half (or less) the electricity they were using before? Not to mention a fraction of the heat. They are growing plants beautifully in more than a few vivs on Dendroboard. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/74462-led-light-switch-over.html

You mention Metal Halide. I would be curious to know how you are managing to keep the temperatures down. It is very hard to keep dart frogs alive under metal halide. It is certainly NOT the lighting system of choice by ANY frogger that I have ever met or heard of.
 

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Why are they NOT they way to go when people are having wonderful results with them using half (or less) the electricity they were using before? Not to mention a fraction of the heat. They are growing plants beautifully in more than a few vivs on Dendroboard. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/74462-led-light-switch-over.html

You mention Metal Halide. I would be curious to know how you are managing to keep the temperatures down. It is very hard to keep dart frogs alive under metal halide. It is certainly NOT the lighting system of choice by ANY frogger that I have ever met or heard of.
There was no mention of any frogs... I personally keep a wide assortment of animals and plants, I don't see why you'd assume I was using MH with frogs...he asked about vivaria in general.

Just because some people are doing great with them does not mean it is the "way to go" for every single keeper.

I was merely commenting on the light spectrum and luminosity.

LEDs are more efficient, as I said as well....but the upfront costs, imho, are not worth it. If you consider a single screw-in bulb as "converting" to LED, perhaps it is...but if we are talking about getting high efficiency, high luminosity, full spectral lights for an affordable upfront price....LED is not exactly affordable.

I'm also generally talking about large enclosures (esp TALL) / plant growing in particular.

As I said twice in my original post, it really depends on your setup. However, overall I'd say that it is not worth it due to the cost and the lack of available pre-made fixtures/setups for the layman. This will almost definitely change in the next 2-5 years.
 

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There was no mention of any frogs... I personally keep a wide assortment of animals and plants, I don't see why you'd assume I was using MH with frogs...he asked about vivaria in general.

Just because some people are doing great with them does not mean it is the "way to go" for every single keeper.

I was merely commenting on the light spectrum and luminosity.

LEDs are more efficient, as I said as well....but the upfront costs, imho, are not worth it. If you consider a single screw-in bulb as "converting" to LED, perhaps it is...but if we are talking about getting high efficiency, high luminosity, full spectral lights for an affordable upfront price....LED is not exactly affordable.

I'm also generally talking about large enclosures (esp TALL) / plant growing in particular.

As I said twice in my original post, it really depends on your setup. However, overall I'd say that it is not worth it due to the cost and the lack of available pre-made fixtures/setups for the layman. This will almost definitely change in the next 2-5 years.
There may be no mention of any frogs on this particular thread, but there are on his other threads. Besides the fact that this is a frog board so it is pretty much assumed.
There was also no mention of esp TALL vivs so I'm not sure why you are assuming that.
I just think you need to be careful about issuing a blanket statement that LEDs are no good. You did make the statement "on the subject of LEDs and lighting, they are NOT currently the way to go."
I just want to point out that your thread barely touches on the subject and that it has been talked about a lot on here. You should really do more research before making a statement like that. In fact, Light your Reptiles has many affordable, easy to use packages for vivs. The temperature alone makes them excellent options for the froggers on the board. I don't see anybody else out there working towards LEDs specifically for our frog vivs so it does not do anybody any good to talk the latest systems down. You haven't tried them, so for all you know, the "next 2 to 5 years" could be here today.
 
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LEDs work great for me.

Having said that - i'm not sure they're ready for prime time for everyone.

For me - I was worried mainly about waste heat. I live in Tucson, AZ and you may have heard it gets a bit warm here. :D I didn't want my Viv lights to contribute to the problem.

While it's a higher initial investment - the cost of running these lights is (supposedly) MUCH lower than other options we have. I'm in it for the long run so it's likely a good "investment" for me.

I'm very pleased with my lights - and the decision to pay more up front for what I needed. But not everyone can make the decision to go with "premium" lighting when there are other options that cost much less up front.

s
 

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it really depends on your tank, setup, etc...

LED lights do *NOT* put out as full of a spectrum as MH or even T5HO bulbs and as such much be adjusted appropriately. If you are willing to put in the time, effort, and MONEY to build an appropriately working LED light, then in the long run you spend less on electricity....

but, LEDs are still very expensive....you can try checking out lightyourreptiles.com a site sponsor who has some LED screw-in bulbs you can check out those may be worthwhile.

but I repeat, it really depends on your tank, setup, budget, etc...
The great thing is they do the job for the frog hobby.
Plants grow great, including mosses (see my threads, one is referenced in this thread). Electricity cost are lower (pm me and ask me how dramatically mine decreased). Heat is lower, specifically overall in the frog room. My frogs do not behave any differently.

So yes there is an initial increase in cost. These do not degrade in their lighting output, nor have to be replaced like other lights. Not the way to go? My experience says otherwise!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jason
 

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I've been looking into these since checking out your thread, Jason. Thanks.
 
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There may be no mention of any frogs on this particular thread, but there are on his other threads. Besides the fact that this is a frog board so it is pretty much assumed.


haha i knew you would reply with "well this is a frog board so its assumed"... Not every thread on these boards is about frogs. and why does it matter what his OTHER threads are about? I havent read nor looked at those...

the OP did not SPECIFY frogs, and since I am almost positive that the greater majority of us, yourself likely included, keep many different animals, there is no reason to answer with only one type of enclosure in mind, especially when no one has made any references to frogs or the like. Just incase, I repeatedly clarified that it varied on the setup, that the initial costs were high, and that the long-running costs were lower.


There was also no mention of esp TALL vivs so I'm not sure why you are assuming that.

I didn't assume that either, I don't know why you would think that I did. I merely mentioned it as one type of larger viv... (notice how it is in parenthesis?)

I just think you need to be careful about issuing a blanket statement that LEDs are no good. You did make the statement "on the subject of LEDs and lighting, they are NOT currently the way to go."

I didn't issue any "blanket" statements. In fact, to be very clear I said "it really depends on your tank, setup, etc..." both at the start and end of my initial response. I didn't just repeat myself because I like to type...

I just want to point out that your thread barely touches on the subject and that it has been talked about a lot on here. You should really do more research before making a statement like that.

I have done a LOT of research since posting that thread and I actually understand the science behind it. I have said nothing incorrect and to be frank your elitism is quite insulting.

In fact, Light your Reptiles has many affordable, easy to use packages for vivs. The temperature alone makes them excellent options for the froggers on the board. I don't see anybody else out there working towards LEDs specifically for our frog vivs so it does not do anybody any good to talk the latest systems down. You haven't tried them, so for all you know, the "next 2 to 5 years" could be here today.
Again, nobody specifically asked about frogs in this thread. You seem really hung up on the fact that they are great for froggers...I don't disagree, in fact I quite agree. If you read my initial post, *I* mentioned that LightYourReptiles makes good screw-in etc LED lights.
 

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I have had excellent results with LED on my vivs, the main display is a 24"x24" cube that had 2 26x CFL 6500k lights and couldn't get the broms to color up. I added one 6500k 24w LED spot light and not only had excellent growth from all the plants it has also colored up the broms and Billbergia. One 24w spot did what 2 26w CFL couldn't in a year, the LEDs did it in matter of a few months. I also have a duo diode 24w spot with 4.5k and 6.5k over a 18x 24 Zoomed that is getting excellent color and growth....

I will be switching all of my vivs on the rack to LEDs over time. All I can say is they have worked great for me and I like the type of light they cast into the vivs with the shadows and rays of light. It looks more natural then the even dispersed light of CFLs or other fluorescents.
 

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There may be no mention of any frogs on this particular thread, but there are on his other threads. Besides the fact that this is a frog board so it is pretty much assumed.
There was also no mention of esp TALL vivs so I'm not sure why you are assuming that.
I just think you need to be careful about issuing a blanket statement that LEDs are no good. You did make the statement "on the subject of LEDs and lighting, they are NOT currently the way to go."
I just want to point out that your thread barely touches on the subject and that it has been talked about a lot on here. You should really do more research before making a statement like that. In fact, Light your Reptiles has many affordable, easy to use packages for vivs. The temperature alone makes them excellent options for the froggers on the board. I don't see anybody else out there working towards LEDs specifically for our frog vivs so it does not do anybody any good to talk the latest systems down. You haven't tried them, so for all you know, the "next 2 to 5 years" could be here today.
hehe...

"on the subject of LEDs and lighting, they are NOT currently the way to go."

I said pretty much the same thing to Scott (Mod) when he was taking about it about a year ago....

Now look! :)

So ... in the ebb and flow of things, Scott was the catalyst that inspired me to find a lower cost LED Unit that all can use.

News Flash:
There will be more big leaps forward in all aspects of lighting for herp care this coming year.
Word.

Cheers!
Todd
lightyourreptiles.com
 

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Todd at light your reptiles is currently working on an LED that captures both the red & blue spectrum but has enough white for viewing. This is not an easy task and will take some time & money to develop; having said that plants seem to do fine with florescent bulbs that don't even begin to cover the correct spectrum, hence the current LED’s work equally as well or better. LED's are probably the future and maybe the present for those that can afford the initial investment, the light output is amazing and much brighter than what I'm able to achieve with even an 8500K T8. If plant growth is your goal HID lights are the trick. There is also single bulb high output LED’s that should be able to be used to bridge the spectrum gap, I have a red & blue one shining into my propagation tank which is lit by T8's hanging above it. This exo has a CF on the left and one of Todd's LED's on the right, you can see the differance.
Brian
 

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Todd at light your reptiles is currently working on an LED that captures both the red & blue spectrum but has enough white for viewing.
this is why i havent converted over to LED yet fixtures need the correct wave length INCLUDING UV. at some point i plan on trading out all my lights, but currently fixtures are limited in sizes (i use 6' down to 20"), lumen values are too low imo and cost is still on the edge. i am anxiously awaiting the next steps in LED lighting, but getting all three of the factors mentioned above will take patience on all sides. I have worked with LEDs in automotive applications (brake lights and turn signals) for the past 7 years. i am impressed by the potential as wells as the "Moore's law" of LEDs. it will come to be that all lighting we use in the future will be LED. there are just some small things that need to be worked out and believe it or not heat is the #1 issue at the moment.
Brian
 

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They may be closer than you think. The technology is there. I say give LEDs a chance. Once they figure out the kinks, I bet you will see many affordable units pop up that offer all our plants and frogs growth needs. I am definitely anxious to see what Todd comes up with in regards to the new bulbs he is working on and hopefully I will be makin the switch soon :) Any info on the type of diode you use Todd?

Josh
 

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currently hes been using a lot of PLCC2s but i assume if hes in progress to retail something new he'll have to use a mix of diodes including maybe some rebel stars. the rebels are just a bit bigger than the PLCC2s but the out put is not even comparable. too bad heat is still an issue with these little guys

Josh, the current issue is there are NO uvb 280-315nm LEDs on the market. So R&D for a fixture with UVB is going to be difficult. demand im sure is high in the sun tan business for low power bill and how frequent bulbs are replaced that a LED diode is being developed. since its not out yet there is obviously an issue with finding the correct chemistry on the cathode and anode to provide the required nm numbers.

Todd, my question is are you finding another fixture to retail, or have you started actually manufacturing your own fixture through a factory youve contracted with?
 

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Again, nobody specifically asked about frogs in this thread. You seem really hung up on the fact that they are great for froggers...I don't disagree, in fact I quite agree. If you read my initial post, *I* mentioned that LightYourReptiles makes good screw-in etc LED lights.
I'm sorry that you're taking this so personally. It wasn't meant as an attack. It was meant to rebut your statements saying that LED lighting are not currently the way to go, and the implication that metal halides are a better choice. Metal halides may, in fact, be a better choice for many applications. But not for this one. Have a good day.
 

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Josh, the current issue is there are NO uvb 280-315nm LEDs on the market.
There are LEDs on the market that emit wavelengths in the UVB range, the problem is they are a bit expensive and in all probability not applicaple in this line of products...So the problem isn't that they are not out there just designed for a small specific purpose.
 

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There are LEDs on the market that emit wavelengths in the UVB range, the problem is they are a bit expensive and in all probability not applicaple in this line of products...So the problem isn't that they are not out there just designed for a small specific purpose.
ive read the quote "UV LEDs in this range are now available and coming down in price" but in reality ive never seen these available through my manufactures. where have you seen them for sale?
 

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I know the UV used in sterilizers won't penetrate glass hence the use of quartz tubes. Is the UV spectrum our frogs need capable of going through glass?
Brian
 

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There are LEDs on the market that emit wavelengths in the UVB range, the problem is they are a bit expensive and in all probability not applicaple in this line of products...So the problem isn't that they are not out there just designed for a small specific purpose.
That would be pretty sweet. How about a single UVB emitting LED that could be simply placed into the same 5/8" size hole that we drill for our misters? That could eliminate the problems associated with getting the proper glass or plexi required for UVB penetration. It could be simply added in regardless of any existing lighting system.
 
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