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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Check this thread out in Science and Conservation.

I don't want to turn this into a discussion on the paper, as it has it's own thread. I do, however, want to know how the nomenclature in the hobby is going to/should change.

Will most of the lamasi locales be referenced as such even though they're now sirensis? For example, R. lamasi "Panguana" would be now referred to as R. sirensis "Panguana-lamasi" or something like that? I think it would be helpful to retain some of the describing aspects we've grown familiar with in their new "hobby name" (especially for people like me who just finally got it all sorted out in my head.)

So how do the names typically transition when you have a species reclassification?
 

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I would say just change the names completely. We dont call Ranitomeya "Ranitomeya-Dendrobates".

Also, Panguana lamasi used to be imitator, and most thumbs were called quinquivittata ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
haha ok. I was looking for an easy way out ;)

Thanks. It is one of the cool things about the hobby though... shows how much we have to learn!

Edit: So would the sirensis that everyone wants and no one has now be considered the nominal form since it was described first?
 

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I'm not really getting this... So people who have lamasi now have a morph of sirensis??? Or are they part of the sirensis group?
Apparently, nobody has any Lamasi anymore. A couple of hours ago, I had about 30 Lamasi...Now I have none! But I've got Sirensis coming out my ears!
 

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I'm not really getting this... So people who have lamasi now have a morph of sirensis??? Or are they part of the sirensis group?
From my understanding of reading the abstract and the other thread R. lamasi IS R. sirensis.
 

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Not even sure if this applies but my first question regarded the legality of this species now. Aren't sirensis (old definition) illegal/ never been imported? Will lamasi be grandfathered into CITES or sirensis be made legal?

I'm not sure on the country of origin on these species and their policies, so that may answer my questions. Just a first impression...
 

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Not even sure if this applies but my first question regarded the legality of this species now. Aren't sirenis (old definition) illegal/ never been imported? Will lamasi be grandfathered into CITES or sirenis be made legal?

I'm not sure on the country of origin on these species and their policies, so that may answer my questions. Just a first impression...
That is a good question, one of the first things that came to my mind as well.... Have there been changes such as this in the past that have effected legality of import or possession? I have no idea....
 

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To address some of the questions of legality due to name changes.

Your lamasi are as legal as they every were even though they are now recognized as sirensis. The CITES database is pretty outdated as far as the current classifications of most poison frogs...actually for many other things as well. Whether or not they accept these nomenclature changes has to be voted upon at one of the upcoming Convention of Parties meetings, I think in 2013. Many of the newly described species are not recognized yet in the data base.

In recognition of this, many countries use scientific synonyms to further differentiate in the interim.

For example, when we export from Canada, using Ranitomeya benedicta as an example, they are exported as Dendrobates fantasticus and in another column, it is noted that the scientific synonym (in order to recognize current classification)(and to prevent confusion) is Ranitomeya benedicta. This helps accommodate current science until the CITES database is up to date. I should add that not every country follows this method, but the general legality issues still apply.

I will be sending our Canadian management authority a copy of this monograph as a well as a synopsis and from there we will discuss how this applies to our past imports of founding stock and determine how this will affect classification of future exports.

As far as the "old school" sirensis entering the hobby, this is currently not possible, as that morph is currently only known from well within a communal reserve. Everyone will have to be happy with their striped sirensis, whatever the colour.

Enjoy the monograph, it is a monumental work, and a very interesting read. Please read the actual monograph, and not just the summary Evan provided.

Kudos to Jessie Black and Ric Sanchez, and everyone else who contributed.
 

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Not even sure if this applies but my first question regarded the legality of this species now. Aren't sirensis (old definition) illegal/ never been imported? Will lamasi be grandfathered into CITES or sirensis be made legal?

I'm not sure on the country of origin on these species and their policies, so that may answer my questions. Just a first impression...

In addition to the nice clarification supplied by Mark Pepper, this was hashed out several times in some notorious threads. If you want to wade through it this thread has some good discussion on it http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/54899-would-you-buy-wc-lehmanni.html

Ed
 
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Thanks Mark and Ed.

Ed I've read bits and pieces of that thread over the time I've been a member here. Can't say I've made it through all 73 pages though.
 

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I can't believe I argued through a 73 page thread.. I must have been feeling irritated or something. If you start at the back and roll backwards you should run across some posts I made that linked to other posts in that thread. That should get you to the appropriate areas of discussion in that monstrosity.

Ed
 

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Drop 'lamasi' altogether. Any time it was previously used...drop it and replace with 'sirensis.' No hyphens, no abbreviations. Just pure replacement.
I agree completely. Yes, there may be a little confusion for a while, but why drag the confusion out for years?
 
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