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If someone can present some hard evidence here in amphibians, I'll be happy to join the discussion again. Until then, be kind to each other.
As I've already said, the complexity of this topic is vexing for me and leaves me uneasy because it's right at the limits of my knowledge of the hobby, and bears much more research before I can say anything with confidence.

That being said, if you're interested in spending some time, I'd recommend doing an Advanced Search on this forum with the terms 'inbreeding' under User: Ed ... not because I think Mr. Kowalski is a deity, but because his posts tend to include citations and links to papers, so they're a very good start. Those links may be outdated, but it could nonetheless point you in the right directions on Google Scholar.
 

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One of the best posts I have read is from Ed. Page 2, about half way down. Part 1 and Part 2.

It is a bit cynical, but in the end, he makes the statement that inbreeding is more preferable to outbreeding depression. You can read it yourself here:

Cross breeding

Again, nobody is ignoring that inbreeding can cause negative impact to the gene pools, but it isn't black and white.
 

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One of the best posts I have read is from Ed. Page 2, about half way down. Part 1 and Part 2.

It is a bit cynical, but in the end, he makes the statement that inbreeding is more preferable to outbreeding depression. You can read it yourself here:

Cross breeding

Again, nobody is ignoring that inbreeding can cause negative impact to the gene pools, but it isn't black and white.
Thanks for find that Chris. This is a good discussion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Hi everyone,

Sorry to bring this back to life, but I am going to order from different sources just to be careful.

I found a breeder that has one available and they said it is nearly adult. They do not know the EOW date, but would it be bad to get this frog and purchase other froglets that are younger? Would they get along, or would the older frog outcompete the younger frogs for food?

Or should I wait to see the sex of the frog and purchase one of the opposite?

Thanks,
Ricky
 

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As long as they are full grown, it should make no difference if they are a year or two years old. If any are significantly smaller, you can just quarantine them for a bit of fatten them up before introducing them. You may not be able to confirm the sex of the frog 100% on its own.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Hi again everyone,

I just got the first frog and they look very healthy to me. This is incredible all the time in preparation was all worth it... Anyway, I tried feeding the frog some dusted FF before putting it into the enclosure, but it was not eating. However, I put it into the enclosure and it appears to be exploring the whole enclosure very quickly and eating springtails up along the way. I know people mentioned that this is not the best because they are not dusted, but should I add some dusted fruit flies and a banana slice to the front of the tank to get the frog used to feeding at this location?

Here is a quick photo of the froglet on the bromeliad taking a look at the next spot to hop to.

300932


Thanks,
Ricky
 

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Hi again everyone,

I just got the first frog and they look very healthy to me. This is incredible all the time in preparation was all worth it... Anyway, I tried feeding the frog some dusted FF before putting it into the enclosure, but it was not eating. However, I put it into the enclosure and it appears to be exploring the whole enclosure very quickly and eating springtails up along the way. I know people mentioned that this is not the best because they are not dusted, but should I add some dusted fruit flies and a banana slice to the front of the tank to get the frog used to feeding at this location?

Here is a quick photo of the froglet on the bromeliad taking a look at the next spot to hop to.

Thanks,
Ricky
GIve it some time to settle in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
GIve it some time to settle in.
Hi Chris,

Thanks! I found myself spending a lot of time observing its actions. Most of the day I saw it exploring the entire vivarium eating microfauna along the way, and by the end of the day I saw it going into the bromeliad and sitting there. I have to say that the frog looks very content.

Going forward I am not sure if I should pick up some additional juvenile frogs, or see if this frog can be sexed then purchase the opposite sex. Is the only reliable way to determine the sex if it is a male and calls? Will the frog call if it is alone? If you had to say going off the picture from earlier, how old would you think until the frog is an adult?

Cheers,
Ricky
 

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Hi Chris,

Thanks! I found myself spending a lot of time observing its actions. Most of the day I saw it exploring the entire vivarium eating microfauna along the way, and by the end of the day I saw it going into the bromeliad and sitting there. I have to say that the frog looks very content.

Going forward I am not sure if I should pick up some additional juvenile frogs, or see if this frog can be sexed then purchase the opposite sex. Is the only reliable way to determine the sex if it is a male and calls? Will the frog call if it is alone? If you had to say going off the picture from earlier, how old would you think until the frog is an adult?

Cheers,
Ricky
Males will often call on their own, but without knowing the age of the frog, you may have a juvenile that is just not sexually mature. Unless you are willing to wait a good 6 months, you may determine it is a female due to lack of any calling just to find out later, that it is a male. Even then, a male may call later once it has a female present! Truly, the only 100% way of telling is having the frog call, or seeing eggs laid.

Imitators can be finicky in groups sometimes, but I have generally had luck with them in trios. I've never seen a lot of male on male aggression, but sometimes two females can be nasty to each other warranting separation. Other times, they wrestle a bit during courting, but are active and tolerate each other outside of this time period. Generally, you just need to ensure the space is big enough for them to avoid each other when and if they need to. That means, lots of hiding spaces, and typically multiple bromeliads that can hide in - and it means smaller enclosures aren't well suited for this.

This frog looks young enough you can easily introduce others right now without any real issues. You don't "need" to have a pair - two males will live together without much issue, for instance. I have multiple tanks right now that house two females of imitators - these were supposed to be pairs that turned out otherwise. They chase each other around, but in the end, they coexist. I wouldn't say this is ideal long-term, but mine also hear male imitators calling from different tanks so are in courting mode. If you really want a pair, you just need to introduce another frog or two, and see how they react. You just need to watch the tank and remove any that are being relentlessly bullied.
 
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Males will often call on their own, but without knowing the age of the frog, you may have a juvenile that is just not sexually mature. Unless you are willing to wait a good 6 months, you may determine it is a female due to lack of any calling just to find out later, that it is a male. Even then, a male may call later once it has a female present! Truly, the only 100% way of telling is having the frog call, or seeing eggs laid.

Imitators can be finicky in groups sometimes, but I have generally had luck with them in trios. I've never seen a lot of male on male aggression, but sometimes two females can be nasty to each other warranting separation. Other times, they wrestle a bit during courting, but are active and tolerate each other outside of this time period. Generally, you just need to ensure the space is big enough for them to avoid each other when and if they need to. That means, lots of hiding spaces, and typically multiple bromeliads that can hide in - and it means smaller enclosures aren't well suited for this.

This frog looks young enough you can easily introduce others right now without any real issues. You don't "need" to have a pair - two males will live together without much issue, for instance. I have multiple tanks right now that house two females of imitators - these were supposed to be pairs that turned out otherwise. They chase each other around, but in the end, they coexist. I wouldn't say this is ideal long-term, but mine also hear male imitators calling from different tanks so are in courting mode. If you really want a pair, you just need to introduce another frog or two, and see how they react. You just need to watch the tank and remove any that are being relentlessly bullied.
Thanks Chris. I think I going to look for two additional frogs I think the tank has enough space to work with for them. It is very difficult to find breeders that have Varadero imis available, but hopefully I end up with a pair.

The frog has been eating the springtails and isopods, but I have not seen it eat many fruit flies. I think this is because the frog has spent almost no time on the ground and is always climbing around, but I have my banana slice on the ground and the fruit flies are all over there. Should I move the banana to an area the frog frequents? Where do you tend to dump your flies in for your thumbnails?

Regards,
Ricky
 

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Thanks Chris. I think I going to look for two additional frogs I think the tank has enough space to work with for them. It is very difficult to find breeders that have Varadero imis available, but hopefully I end up with a pair.

The frog has been eating the springtails and isopods, but I have not seen it eat many fruit flies. I think this is because the frog has spent almost no time on the ground and is always climbing around, but I have my banana slice on the ground and the fruit flies are all over there. Should I move the banana to an area the frog frequents? Where do you tend to dump your flies in for your thumbnails?

Regards,
Ricky
I usually dump them right on the ground. The frogs learn pretty quickly where you tend to dump them, so I don't usually use a feeding station or anything. Younger frogs I keep in more confined areas to ensure they are eating, so I don't have them in large display tanks until they are mature and eating properly.
 
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