[Drachenblut]

Hello
I noticed that many people have questions as to the best sizes of terrariums for dart frogs. Many people do not have the funds nor time to custom build a terrarium, so most would buy a already available model.

To this end, I would love your thoughts and input on the proper size and make of tanks, based on your experience and knowledge (often times what is on paper does not work in reality)

A format similar to the below would be great:

Frog Species - Quantity of Frogs - Tank Maker - Minimal Size - Optimal Size

An example:
Ranitomeya Vanzolinii - Exo Terra - 1.1. Pair - 18X18x24 - 36X18X18 Optimal

Cheers and Happy Frogging!

 

[Drachenblut]

So the simple answer is "As much space as you can give them".

Sure. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Drachenblut]

3) I see where you are coming from but it's hard not to read that as a very bourgeois statement LOL!

Watching YouTube and even seeing pictures of many of the setups people have posted here, I see a LOT of 18X18X24's in use.
I might be singling myself out for mockery here but, if it's so wrong and a 36X18X36 is the minimum to properly offer, why is it so rarely represented (in my experience from what I have seen?)

Is everyone doing it "wrong"?

 

[Drachenblut]

You make very fair points. I do stand corrected and should not have allowed emotion to come into the equation.

As keepers we should all strive to provide the best care THAT WE CAN for our frogs. Unless we were able to provide massive walk-in livingroom size enclosures (like myhomeinnature does) then as was mentioned it will pale in comparison to the jungle the species comes from.

All that said, thank you all for your suggestions and recommendations.

 

[Drachenblut]

Not everyone, but most are doing so.
Aside from that there are so much more common mistakes made than just enclosure size. Most people just build their quick candy for the eye and what get's them the likes they want on social media platforms.
So does many 'paludarium/vivarium' vendors, added that they financialy profit from such enclosures and or mistakes since this get's them to sell more.

Hence why the majority of frogs never get to reach to +20years old in captivity and why it's easy to find a vast amount of incorrect shot term advice rather than good advice based on long term experience.

Very well said! Could you make some specific points as to mistakes that you are mentioning?

What are some of your tips for helping frogs live to 20 years? I know you are a master of this craft and I would love to hear

 

[Drachenblut]

I think the question was fair, and people have focused on the 'optimal' part which was perhaps bound to happen. I do think it's always good to reiterate that bigger=better (or even, biggest=best), but understand that most of people don't have the space or money to house the frogs in the setups they would ideally like. It's important that as a community we discuss what is practical and realistic, as well what is ideal. People in glass vivs shouldn't throw stones etc.

To that end, let me answer your question in the format requested - I think it isn't a bad exercise, honestly...

Dendrobates Leucomelas - Euro style step-Vent Viv - 3.2 group - 36 x 18 x 24 - Orinoco Rainforest, Venezuela

My reasoning for this was that I had 0.0.3 in a 36 x 18 x 24 and I saw the frogs on odd occasion travel from the ground to the top corner in about 5 hops. That explains the width. 24 inches minimum due to what gets eaten up by substrate, 18 inches due to background and just being able to scape it in a way that provides enough hiding spaces. Male-heavy group due to research about females being territorial and sometimes aggressive, so giving more than 1 option for mating would likely diffuse that aggression. Also more calling frogs would be my preference! I think 5 would be fine, given correct viv layout and enough hiding, sleeping, and egg-laying spots for each frog to feel comfortable. I'm unsure if euro-style =/= step vent, but a vivarium with top ventilation as well as underneath sliding doors is best. A low step-vent is my preference, allowing for unobstructed viewing of the vivarium.

The last part is of course a joke, but I would definitely agree with the consensus that 36x18x36 in terms of commercially-available vivaria would be best, though scaping an even larger tank is a very rewarding challenge, giving lots of room for interesting plants, pieces of hardscape and design elements.

Hope that helps

Hello friend!

A wonderful reply, thank you for expressing my meaning in a way I could not. Agreed that the Rainforest is the ideal location for them, but in captivity, I think the biggest we could offer is a good answer, but yours shows there are other workable options.

Thank you!

 

[Drachenblut]

This information is already available in the species care guides. This thread is not adding anything here.

Then there is no reason for this thread to exist, obviously. Socratic, go ahead and delete it. I think we've all learned what we need to know here.

 

[Drachenblut]

😅😊 I gotcha. Sorry I am just rather new and learning how precise and specific some people can be, and others the opposite.

Literally I just wish to do the best I can for my frogs with the resources I have, and wish the same for others as well.

Thank you for your wonderful response, alas I am neither as glib nor erudite, so I tip my hat to you!