[fishr]

Or at least I hope so?

The larger was 'hugging' the buttom frog while it was walking. Looked like the larger frog a death grip or something. lol

If I am wrong jumping the gun, please advise. But for now pretty stoked.

Jessica

 

[jackxc925]

most likely female on female aggression. tincs don't amplex

 

[billschwinn]

That is aggression. Usually female on female, however I have a few females that occasionally go Dominatrix on their males. Are you sure you have a pair?

 

[fishr]

No, I'm not positive I have a pair. The behavior I just viewed 20 minutes ago appeared (to me) mating. However, I have never witnessed aggression or know what to look for.

I remember with some animals the male can be quite dominant in his attempt to breed so that is what I thought I saw.

The slightly larger of the two had its arms around the sides and the other underneath walked a few steps with the other on. I went downstairs to report what I saw. In about 8 minutes or so, the larger frog had released the other.

When I think of aggression, I think of biting or nipping... So what I saw wasn't the tincs mating?

 

[DendroRachel]

I'm no expert but I'm fairly certain thats female-female aggression, especially if the larger one was gripping onto the smaller. larger females are typically the dominant ones, and females are larger than males so if tincs did amplexus, the larger (female) would be on the bottom

 

[mcaiger53]

The behavior you are thinking of is called amplexus, (doubt I spelled it correctly). You see common toads and bull frogs do this while mating. The male (usually smaller) clings to the back of the female during mating. Looks like a bear hug. Tincs don't exibit this behavior during mating, usually same sex agression. I have also witnessed my female doing this to the male (bicolor), so not guarenting (also spelled wrong) the sexes of the frogs.
Mike

 

[frogface]

Check out these videos

Azureus courting:

Azureus fighting:

 

[fishr]

The only two 'good' photos I could get of the toe pads. My camera isn't real good in low light even with flash and it's night time my way.

This is the larger.

Them together.

A few months back, I did hear one of them make a 'buzzing' sound. It was very soft or quiet. I only heard the sound because I didn't have my fan, TV or any music on.

 

[fishr]

Check out these videos

Azureus courting:
Poison Dart Frogs - Dendrobates Azureus - Courting - YouTube

Azureus fighting:
Azureus fighting!! - YouTube

Thanks!
On the second video, at 0.26 - 0.28 is all I witnessed.

I'm no expert but I'm fairly certain thats female-female aggression, especially if the larger one was gripping onto the smaller. larger females are typically the dominant ones, and females are larger than males so if tincs did amplexus, the larger (female) would be on the bottom

Do you mean the the larger female would be on top, rather than the bottom? Because you say 'larger females are typically the dominant ones.' Just got confused.

The behavior you are thinking of is called amplexus, (doubt I spelled it correctly). You see common toads and bull frogs do this while mating. The male (usually smaller) clings to the back of the female during mating. Looks like a bear hug. Tincs don't exibit this behavior during mating, usually same sex agression. I have also witnessed my female doing this to the male (bicolor), so not guarenting (also spelled wrong) the sexes of the frogs.
Mike

Hi Mike!

Uh, so, amplexus is something I've never heard of.

Thanks guys for all the info.

So I guess I have two females?

 

[guppygal]

It sounds like it. IMO, I'd keep an eye on 'em. I've seen the more dominant female stress the lesser one to death. If you notice the smaller female in a submissive position or trying to hide, then it's time to move her to her own tank or trade her for a male.

kristi

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

No, I'm not positive I have a pair. The behavior I just viewed 20 minutes ago appeared (to me) mating. However, I have never witnessed aggression or know what to look for.

I remember with some animals the male can be quite dominant in his attempt to breed so that is what I thought I saw.

The slightly larger of the two had its arms around the sides and the other underneath walked a few steps with the other on. I went downstairs to report what I saw. In about 8 minutes or so, the larger frog had released the other.

When I think of aggression, I think of biting or nipping... So what I saw wasn't the tincs mating?

Dart frogs do not bite or nip one another, so that's not aggression. If you see the frog stroking the other one's back legs, that is probably courtship. If one actually latches on and stays on, it's usually aggression.
That one picture you posted of the frog is a bit skinny looking. Maybe it's just the angle of the photo, but you will want to keep a close eye and probably separate them as female-female aggression in tinctorius is often deadly to the weaker frog.
Good luck,
Bryan

 

[fishr]

It sounds like it. IMO, I'd keep an eye on 'em. I've seen the more dominant female stress the lesser one to death. If you notice the smaller female in a submissive position or trying to hide, then it's time to move her to her own tank or trade her for a male.

kristi

Kristi, I will do exactly what you suggested. I wouln't want one of them dieing due to so much stress. : (

 

[fishr]

Thanks, Bryan and Krysti. I'll keep a close eye on them.

 

[DendroRachel]

fishr - I did mean that IF they were mating via amplexus (one on top of the other) then the larger of the two, the female, would be on the bottom and the smaller male would be on top.

but typically if there are 2 females, the larger is more dominant. besides the fact that apparently tincs do do amplexus, the fact that your larger frog was on top of the other would suggest a dominant large female was wrestling your smaller submissive females

 

[fishr]

I feel distressed right now. I've already have had to seperate one from the three due to it losing weight.

What would be best at this point? Put the larger of the three tincs in the QT and the other two kept in their viv or the two probable submissives in the QT to fatten up and leave the larger in the viv?

 

[billschwinn]

I feel distressed right now. I've already have had to seperate one from the three due to it losing weight.

What would be best at this point? Put the larger of the three tincs in the QT and the other two kept in their viv or the two probable submissives in the QT to fatten up and leave the larger in the viv?

Either way separate them so they regain weight. If you heard the buzzing you may have a male in the mix, as I said females will lash out at males occasionally( I don't know if my first post on your thread was invisable), just briing the two smaller ones back to optimum condition and send a few more pics. Bill

 

[jbherpin]

Buzzing= male, wrestling almost always= female. You need to try and figure out who's calling. In the 2 together shot, one has disticntly girly toe pads(on the right) and the other frog(facing the camera) has larger pads. How old are the frogs?

Perhaps he has matured faster and has grown faster and is looking to intice her in any way possible???

JBear

 

[WendySHall]

I wouldn't count out males so fast from displaying aggression. I've seen it before myself. They can wrestle just as well as the females to display dominance. It might not happen as often, but it does happen. And Bill is right...if you heard a low buzzing, that's indicative of a male.

 

[Baltimore Bryan]

I wouldn't count out males so fast from displaying aggression. I've seen it before myself. They can wrestle just as well as the females to display dominance. It might not happen as often, but it does happen. And Bill is right...if you heard a low buzzing, that's indicative of a male.

I accidentally read right over the part where he mentioned a buzzing sound, which is why I assumed they were probably both females.
I completely agree that male-male aggression can happen- I lost a male azureus to it a few years ago.
It sounds like at this point if you see aggression, you probably have two of the same sex (whether male or female). At this point, I think the best thing to do would be to separate them, feed them well, and then in a couple of months when they are in good health and have been apart, post pictures up and try to sex them. Then you will have a better idea and know what frog(s) you need to acquire to pair them off.
Bryan

 

[fishr]

Many, many thanks everyone. I really appreciate all your expertise. It has been a learning experience. I've read everyone's replies and just appreciate the patience and guideance.

Tomorrow (it's late now and the frogs are sleeping where ever they roost for the night) I think I will move the other submissive one in the viv into the QT with the other, and leave the larger one in the viv.

The buzzing was several months ago actually and I've only have heard it once.

I'm not sure how old these guys are. I purchased them the week if Christmas last year from LLL Reptile. So late Dec '10.

I'll keep everyone updated.

Jessica

EDIT: Just a minor note, my goal is to enjoy my froggies. Breeding is not on top of my list but if it happens it happens. Just wanted to mention that. I got a little over zealous I suppose judging by the title of the thread.