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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Plant Flowerpot Houseplant Pet supply Terrestrial plant


This is my first attempt at a waterfall vive. Some mistakes were made. Mostly that I didn't realize "PVC" foam board existed and was suggested to use "foam board" when I asked a builder on YouTube what was used to house the water pump and what I found locally was elmers craft foam board. It seemed weird to me but I figured the pro knew his stuff. I asked at both hardware and craft stores, neither of what was suggested was very good but the most useful might be what ever the weird bendy plastic material I got at the hardware store was as I ended up using it to fix the build after ripping out much of the disintegrating Elmers craft foam board. I also used pond filter sponge that I cut up a bit on both the bottom and the top as a cork from getting debris and such into the pump house.

Now all I need are some inhabitants! I'm thinking possibly arturus? Suggestions welcome! It's a 40 gallon exoterra.
 

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Really lovely display. :)

I really like to chose the species first, and then build the enclosure to suit it, but there are a few folks here who keep semiaquatic animals who might be able to suggest a species for your semiaquatic enclosure.
 

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That looks cool. I love paludariums! I feel that combining land and water really makes for a great display. What substrate(s) are you using for your land and water portions? Are you allowing water to communicate with the land portion’s false bottom or did you build a divider?

Are you open to suggestions on livestock and build improvement ideas?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but the info could help guide others who’d like to chime in.
 

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What about a fire belly toad? I feel like one or two of those might do really well in that enclosure, as they actively enjoy paladarium setups, stay small, and if memory serves from keeping them as a kid, they climb reasonably well, certainly enough to make use of portions of the elevated back section.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Hello, that's a beautiful vivarium.

I would not, however, recommend putting any dart frogs in there. There appears to be very little usable floorspace for the frogs to use as it is either water or plants. This is not a recommended approach for dart frogs.
There is actually quite a bit of floor space and hiding places so your assumptions are incorrect. Less than half of the 40gallons of space is water and what after there is is no deeper than a half inch. I read that arturus love to have a little wading pool. I made sure the water was aerated with a waterfall and pump so there is none standing. As plants hate that even more than the frogs and would die faster. I also like that they are commununal. I did my research contrary to what you may think.

In fact there are actually TWO coco huts in there but the second one is hidden in the back behind some plants so you really have no idea if you think there isn't enough floor space for dart frogs...

Like I get you're a mod and big time dart frogger but this response reeks of gate keeping.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
That looks cool. I love paludariums! I feel that combining land and water really makes for a great display. What substrate(s) are you using for your land and water portions? Are you allowing water to communicate with the land portion’s false bottom or did you build a divider?

Are you open to suggestions on livestock and build improvement ideas?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but the info could help guide others who’d like to chime in.
I used a pond sponge false bottom for most of the tank the areas that are the pond are sand and gravel. On top the pond sponge I packed layers of soil moss and leaf litter. On the bottom I planted plants I knew ldidnt mind growing along water mostly and towards the back I used climbing plants. The large philo I don't expect to be a permanent resident tbh. I think it's a monstera but I'm not 100%. It was given to me to include in the build and I'm just not convinced it belongs.

I designed it to look kind of like the base of a rotting tree. I noticed my tincs really love having multiple levels of places to hide and explore so I wanted the tank to have a feeling of mutiple levels for them. Fishingguys sees 3inches of space in front of the front coconut and the water and assumes that's the whole tank while ignoring literally all of the rest of it. Most of those cork logs are hollow and there are three rows of plants on that bottom floor. The idea there isn't enough floor space for them to me quite frankly sounds insane.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
That looks cool. I love paludariums! I feel that combining land and water really makes for a great display. What substrate(s) are you using for your land and water portions? Are you allowing water to communicate with the land portion’s false bottom or did you build a divider?

Are you open to suggestions on livestock and build improvement ideas?

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but the info could help guide others who’d like to chime in.
There is no divider. That might be my downfall? The soil communicates with the water through the false bottom(the pond sponge) as I wanted to allow the plants to grow. I used a mix of lugartis natural soil because I just really love it tbh and mixed it with some sphagnum moss and topped it with leaf litter. There is a devider that houses the pump however and I used additional pond sponge filter there to filterout any more sand/soil that might get into the pump house.


I will also take livestock suggestions. I did ultimately build the tank for auratus which is why I said that is what I think I want to stock it with. I did some reading on them as I had in my mind to build this tank for communal dart frogs that could live peacefully in a group of 3-5. I also read that they like to hang out in and around water a bit more than the other darts too so I thought it would be lovely to try and build something like this for all our familys enjoyment.
 

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There is actually quite a bit of floor space and hiding places so your assumptions are incorrect. Less than half of the 40gallons of space is water and what after there is is no deeper than a half inch. I read that arturus love to have a little wading pool. I made sure the water was aerated with a waterfall and pump so there is none standing. As plants hate that even more than the frogs and would die faster. I also like that they are commununal. I did my research contrary to what you may think.

In fact there are actually TWO coco huts in there but the second one is hidden in the back behind some plants so you really have no idea if you think there isn't enough floor space for dart frogs...

Like I get you're a mod and big time dart frogger but this response reeks of gate keeping.
sorry but this is not gate keeping it is the truth. This enclosure is not suitable for frogs at all and nobody wants to see frogs suffer and die. Listen to the advice of people who know more than you, do more research from reliable sources (this site is great), and build an enclosure designed for a specific species which meets its needs. People are just helping you, not trying to ruin your fun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
sorry but this is not gate keeping it is the truth. This enclosure is not suitable for frogs at all and nobody wants to see frogs suffer and die. Listen to the advice of people who know more than you, do more research from reliable sources (this site is great), and build an enclosure designed for a specific species which meets its needs. People are just helping you, not trying to ruin your fun.
Lol no the truth would have been a completely different response than what was said. It was gatekeeping and unhelpful and yours is extra egotistical and unhelpful. Wow-yikes. This is not what I come here for.
 

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Lol no the truth would have been a completely different response than what was said. It was gatekeeping and unhelpful and yours is extra egotistical and unhelpful. Wow-yikes. This is not what I come here for.
Sorry you did not get the response you wanted, but I'am afraid all advice given here is correct so far. I don't see any resaon why annyone on this board would like to waste their time by gatekeeping instead of helping someone out.

I'm 100% conviced you did a lot of research and planning, but I have to say with a lot of shame that over 80% of the information on 'how to keep and care for dartfrogs' topics is either super outdated or made with the only intention to sell as many animals and products possible to the interested consumer or only made for gaining followers or viewers. I'am afraid this is largely the information you found and took as guidline..

Again, the advice given on the worldwide web by sellers or influencers is very different from the information and advice shared from the oint of view by long term eperience on this board. since 99% of the active and experienced forummebers (or mods) only have interest in succesfull keeping, breeding and simply wanting to make the animals thrive so both the animals and (new) keeper can enjoy. There is no other benefit gained for us.

If you'd be interested, here is a link to a recently published 'dartfrogs 101' article I wrote for Aquarium Hobbist magazine and a link to a build topic on how I setup my tanks.
Maybe the can help you as a new guideline in order for you to make some adjustments to turn you tank into a suitable enclosure to house dartfrogs.

the article : Home | Aquarium Hobbyist Magazine

the build topic : 70x50x65cm Vivarium Build.


Still, if you are on doubt feel free to do some more research on this board and it's 1000th topics, there is never any harm done in gathering more knowledge right?


Kind regards,
Tijl

Instagram @urban__jungles
 

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There is actually quite a bit of floor space and hiding places so your assumptions are incorrect.

Like I get you're a mod and big time dart frogger but this response reeks of gate keeping.
Fishingguy12345, Tijl and the others who offered advice really do represent the best practice guidelines when it comes to PDF husbandry. While their advice may not have been exactly what you wanted to hear, it really was truthful. Pretty much all who contributed to your post are advanced keepers to say the least, and their advice was only meant to help, not hurt your ideas or current setup. They’ve looked at X>1000 similar setups, viewed/answered tons of posts and are extremely fluent with the vivarium dimensions. I know that sometimes constructive criticism can sting a bit. This can be more so the case after you’ve done all the research that you’ve obviously done.

I have to echo the fact that much of the info available on the web is outdated and is centered around monetize items and business strategies. Members here have no chance of financial gain so their advice and knowledge is given exclusively through altruism. There’s a good chance these senior members were successfully breeding and keeping several species of PDF at high level long before we even decided to consider buying one ourselves. In short; their advice is certainly worth considering.

With all of that being said, I’d suggest you keep on keepin on and continue to research what livestock would not only survive, but thrive In the environment you’ve created(there are many). Or, simply make a few changes and move forward with your PDF idea.

Just some friendly thoughts
 

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yours is extra egotistical
We're not going to attack people here. DB users are often up for heated debates -- with supporting evidence -- of husbandry methodology, but once things get to personal jabs it is going to end very quickly. No one here is obligated to give husbandry advice that is anything but supported by reasons, but everyone here is obligated to keep it very civil.

On recommendations: posters here tend to give advice that's pretty conservative. Sometimes it is conservative for the animals' benefit; auratus have a home range of tens of square meters of mostly leaf litter, and a vertical range of tens of meters, so every single element of a one half cubic meter box is best maximally usable by the frogs.

Sometimes it is conservative for the keepers' benefit: some people claim to do well with maintaining paludaria. Many do not, as they're exceedingly complicated ways to solve a very simple housing need, and have many more points of potential failure than a terrestrial enclosure. Many of us (myself included) have attempted various sorts of water "features" for darts and failed (I killed a frog, and spent hours saving another, from an ill-advised water area). Concern for a keepers' benefit is kind of paternalistic, but that's the nature of advice, and when we log off for the day many of us would like to think that we've given advice that will save someone trouble rather than perpetuate trouble.

And sometimes claims get a little overstated. For example, your frogs probably aren't going to die because of the viv design (somewhat in the same way that a person probably won't get lung cancer from smoking cigarettes; statistics are funny things). But those are claims that are simply worth questioning ("Why do you say they'll die, exactly? Do you really mean that, or is this hyperbole?"), but also are worth considering what the grain of truth is in them. In this case, I think it is that the more elements of captive life the captives have to tolerate -- like tolerating group housing; dart frogs aren't communal, but some of them tolerate exceedingly close forced contact with heterospecifics better than others, at least well enough that whatever stress is caused by that situation isn't clearly noticeable by most keepers -- the less well they'll be likely to fare long term.

And that's what many people here seem to be after: long term success that isn't necessarily flashy or super exciting. Much of the info available on the web is super shiny videos that are mostly really slick advertising, or cut and pasted garbage that is mostly an Amazon storefront. That flashy misinformation caters to a lot of people's desires, but many posters here seem to be attempting to undermine that sort of wish fulfillment. This sort of advice isn't for everyone, at least not right now, but that doesn't mean it is worth making into a personal conflict.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Fishingguy12345, Tijl and the others who offered advice really do represent the best practice guidelines when it comes to PDF husbandry. While their advice may not have been exactly what you wanted to hear, it really was truthful. Pretty much all who contributed to your post are advanced keepers to say the least, and their advice was only meant to help, not hurt your ideas or current setup. They’ve looked at X>1000 similar setups, viewed/answered tons of posts and are extremely fluent with the vivarium dimensions. I know that sometimes constructive criticism can sting a bit. This can be more so the case after you’ve done all the research that you’ve obviously done.

I have to echo the fact that much of the info available on the web is outdated and is centered around monetize items and business strategies. Members here have no chance of financial gain so their advice and knowledge is given exclusively through altruism. There’s a good chance these senior members were successfully breeding and keeping several species of PDF at high level long before we even decided to consider buying one ourselves. In short; their advice is certainly worth considering.

With all of that being said, I’d suggest you keep on keepin on and continue to research what livestock would not only survive, but thrive In the environment you’ve created(there are many). Or, simply make a few changes and move forward with your PDF idea.

Just some friendly thoughts
Fishing guys didn't even offer advice. He just said. "There's no floor space don't put frogs in it" which there absolutely is floor space and was incredibly unhelpful "advice". If there is a problem with the water feature it's not the lack of floor space.
 

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Fishing guys didn't even offer advice. He just said. "There's no floor space don't put frogs in it" which there absolutely is floor space and was incredibly unhelpful "advice".
You might want to cautiously read what he posted again.

He replied with and I quote : There APPEARS to be very little usable floorspace for the frogs.
and he is absoluyely correct in pointing this out.

His comment probablly did lack some advice on why, how, his reasoning and what to do to fix the issue on this setup not beeing suitable for housing frogs.
I won't argue with that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
You might want to cautiously read what he posted again.

He replied with and I quote : There APPEARS to be very little usable floorspace for the frogs.
and he is absoluyely correct in pointing this out.

His comment probablly did lack some advice on why, how, his reasoning and what to do to fix the issue on this setup not beeing suitable for housing frogs.
I won't argue with that.
Precisely my issue. There is no real advice in that comment it just sounds like gatekeeping.

[Edit]

Tbh I still have yet to recieve literally any bit of useful advice from a single person in this thread. All I've gotten so far is"our advice is the best, do more research" no suggestions on how to fix or what to stock it with.

Edit 2- rereading your second post and yours is probably the most helpful so far. I'll keep looking into it.
 
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