[CREEPlNG_DEATH]

I have read that hydrogen peroxide will kill parasites, so why has it never been used to sterilize vivariums with frogs that harbour parasites?

The only reason I ask is because I recently spent alot of money setting up my viv and im pretty sure the 2 frogs I have in there now are harbouring parasites. I would like to get fecals done to make sure so I can treat them, but there is no way in hell that im going rip the tank apart and toss the plants. If that's the only option I will not house any frogs in the tank and leave it as is.

My plan is to heavily bomb the tank with co2 because I also have some spider mites, then spay the entire tank with a diluted peroxide solution for the plants and straight peroxide for the soil and the rest of the tank.

Like I said if this absolutely will not work, I will just set up another tank for the frogs and use this tank just for viewing. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank's Matt

 

[Ed]

Primarily because any residual organics shield the organism from the peroxide and additionally many organisms have catalase and peroxidases which break down the hydrogen peroxide before it can damage them. The over the counter concentration of hydrogen peroxide are not sufficient to the task. Concentrations that would be sufficient are also hazardous to use.

If you want to utilze an effective disinfectant other than bleach or ammonia (never both) you can look into peracetic acid... some websites advocate making it yourself by spraying with hydrogen peroxide and then spraying with vinegar but this may not be a sufficient concentration. It would be better to aquire the correct concentrations.

Bleach is commonly used because it is so readily available and is effective against most pathogens/parasites of the frogs.

Ed

 

[CREEPlNG_DEATH]

Primarily because any residual organics shield the organism from the peroxide and additionally many organisms have catalase and peroxidases which break down the hydrogen peroxide before it can damage them. The over the counter concentration of hydrogen peroxide are not sufficient to the task. Concentrations that would be sufficient are also hazardous to use.

If you want to utilze an effective disinfectant other than bleach or ammonia (never both) you can look into peracetic acid... some websites advocate making it yourself by spraying with hydrogen peroxide and then spraying with vinegar but this may not be a sufficient concentration. It would be better to aquire the correct concentrations.

Bleach is commonly used because it is so readily available and is effective against most pathogens/parasites of the frogs.

Ed

Thank's for the reply Ed. What ratio of bleach would be best for spraying the entire tank while maintaining plant health? And what would I have to do before re-introducing the frogs?

Also,
Here is my post from yesterday if could help it would be greatly appreciated.

So, it's been about a month. I look at my frogs everyday and have watched this one a little more closely since noticing his strange back.

Anyway, I noticed today that only one side of his stomach was moving, kind of like when they eat and the stomach starts to undulate, but it was only occurring on one side of his body.

I also noticed a very tiny brown bug crawling around on him. I'm wondering if that could be a parasite of some sort.

I'm starting to think that I should get fecals done so if he needs treatment I can do it asap. Other than that, he's moving around fine, eating. Nothing else seems out of the norm.

Thank's Matt

 

[parkanz2]

Just wanted to chime in on the subject of bleach, which also readily reacts with organics and neutralizes which is one of the reasons it's not common in medical professions nowadays.

Take a look at this thread regarding CO2. I might consider "bombing" your viv with CO2 instead as it won't leave any residue and is actually good for your plants!

Good luck,
Max

 

[Ed]

Thank's for the reply Ed. What ratio of bleach would be best for spraying the entire tank while maintaining plant health? And what would I have to do before re-introducing the frogs?

Also,
Here is my post from yesterday if could help it would be greatly appreciated.

So, it's been about a month. I look at my frogs everyday and have watched this one a little more closely since noticing his strange back.

Anyway, I noticed today that only one side of his stomach was moving, kind of like when they eat and the stomach starts to undulate, but it was only occurring on one side of his body.

I also noticed a very tiny brown bug crawling around on him. I'm wondering if that could be a parasite of some sort.

I'm starting to think that I should get fecals done so if he needs treatment I can do it asap. Other than that, he's moving around fine, eating. Nothing else seems out of the norm.

Thank's Matt

Whoops, I missed the idea that you would be spraying down plants and substrates with bleach.. Do not do it...unless you want to wipe out a lot of things. If you want to disinfect the tank, you need to strip it down, properly discard (into the trash stream do not dump outside) all materials that cannot be readily disinfected (most organic materials) and sterilize the tank.
Movement like you describe may not be anything at all... or it may be something, no way to guess based on that little information.

The small brown arthropod is probably a detrivore mite.

Ed

 

[jrgobble]

Internal and external parasite are dealt with completely different. Treating the frogs will eliminate any parasites on the frogs or inside the frogs(depending on treatment) but will do nothing for the environment. The CO2 bomb will kill any parasites that require oxygen to live, but parasites that are in eggs or cocoons may not be destroyed. I have seen worm eggs from other animals survive all chemical cleaning. The only way to kill some of the eggs is with very high heat, which will damage your plants also. Removing the frogs for some time will kill off the external parasites since there is no other host , but the internal parasites can survive in a dormant stage for many months and possibly years. Remove the frogs, quarantine, treat for parasites for 6 weeks(a number I pulled from other animals), then add to the new tank. OR...start a routine treating program in the old tank to treat suppress the parasites(may tank a year or two). I hope this helps. Johnny

 

[Ed]

. Removing the frogs for some time will kill off the external parasites since there is no other host , but the internal parasites can survive in a dormant stage for many months and possibly years. Remove the frogs, quarantine, treat for parasites for 6 weeks(a number I pulled from other animals), then add to the new tank. OR...start a routine treating program in the old tank to treat suppress the parasites(may tank a year or two). I hope this helps. Johnny

Some parasites of anurans like lungworms in the genus Rhabdias have a free living form and a parasitic form. Both forms produce the other so you can have an enclosure full of active ready to infect larva. If the frog is immunologically naive or stressed to these parasites you can rapidly end up with a massive infection. As there are free living adults producing the larva, there is a continous infectious barrage on the frogs... It isn't guaranteed that the problem will be due to the suvivial of some eggs..

In many institutions quarantine for amphibians is 30 days or 3 clean fecals taken at least 7 days apart which ever is longer. Typically quarantine in institutions is 30 days for amphibians, 60 days for lizards, chelonians, and crocodilians, and 90-120 days for snakes. Snakes have the longest time frame due to the risk of paramyxovirus, and depending on taxa several other diseases.

Ed

 

[jrgobble]

Thanks for the correction, Johnny.