[stevendart14]

Do anyone know of a website where there is a lec and AZUREUS cross picture? I seen it ounce but lost it.

 

[christina hanson]

It's on Tracy Hicks' website.

http://www.tracyhicks.com/Kfrogs.htm

It's down at the bottom.

I produced those frogs by accident, they were in a large display tank at my work, proven pairs of leucs and azureus to boot. The female azureus found the leuc male irresistable. After that I also ended up with an azureus auratus cross (same female azureus). Needless to say I never took eggs from that tank again.

Darn cool looking frogs though.

 

[Guest]

Christina, could I show that picture of the hybrid frog leuco+azureus in the Canadian dart frog forum??????

If you want me to put your name in that picture I forsure would tell them to do soo.
Thanks

 

[markpulawski]

hybrid

I understand the Azuremelas is a delicate frog of rare beauty. I have been on the waiting list for years!
Mark

 

[christina hanson]

Hello,

It isn't my photo, so you would have to ask Tracy. I would take one for you but they were passed on as pets to another folk years ago (they were all females (4) ) BTW.

While I was a bit embarassed to produce it, even way back then hybrids were a no no, it is nice to see some of the combos that can happen....

While we're on the subject, by far the favorite frog in my display tank at work is that azureus auratus hybrid. Walls poo poo'd it, but that's a pretty frog. It also has a personality that's a cross of the two parents, so you actually see it out and about. Not condoning hybridizing even though I did it, but it is interesting to see genetics at work.

 

[stevendart14]

Thanx,
In a way it look similar to the Oelemarie morph. I was thinking of a program for hybrids. Instead of people destroying perfectly good eggs,tadpoles, frogs I would use them for research. Nothing special just how they would interact with certain gecko and other species. To help with these questions of what animals can coexist with what. But I don't want the chance of people seeing these crossed morphs and end up like leopard geckos. Such a good hobby turned into what new cross you can make (blizzard-carrottailetc).

 

[Guest]

I understand the Azuremelas is a delicate frog of rare beauty. I have been on the waiting list for years!
Mark

Man, do you not appreceate what were dealing with here. Allthough PDF's may not be endangered themselfs, thier habitat surely is. Why piss in the geene pool. Dont degrade us to the level of Dog breeders please.

 

[Guest]

Quote:
I understand the Azuremelas is a delicate frog of rare beauty. I have been on the waiting list for years!
Mark


Man, do you not appreceate what were dealing with here. Allthough PDF's may not be endangered themselfs, thier habitat surely is. Why piss in the geene pool. Dont degrade us to the level of Dog breeders please.

Wow, are you seriously that dense? He was joking around, its called sarcasm, give him a break.
Now that I got that dont think im trying to be mean, I just dont like it when people make crazy comments like that to a joke.

 

[markpulawski]

Hybrid

Yes I do appreceate.......appricte.........approveate..............the VERY (yes i am yelling) nature of this situation. Thank you for noticing.
Mark

 

[stevendart14]

Man, these forums do be geting a little heated when it come to hybrid dart frogs. :shock:

 

[Guest]

Thats ok, i dont really know you guys, and well, sarcasm doesn't come across too well unless youve got a smiley. May i suggest the 'roll eye's' icon for such witt in future, if only to avoid anyone reading verbatum gettin the wrong idea.

Im glad it was a joke, infact, im PLEASED it was a joke as it goes to show that good ethics is important.

Personally, if i had produced that frog, i would have taken it upin myself to unproduce it. C02 or something maybee. But thats just me, id hate to think that somewhere allong the line it could breed back inuntentionally.

Sorry peeps, no harm done.

 

[elmoisfive]

I understand the Azuremelas is a delicate frog of rare beauty. I have been on the waiting list for years!
Mark

Mark...thanks for the humor...it was too off the wall to be taken as a serious comment...added a bit of levity to a subject that inspires quite a bit of impassioned commentary.

Personally, if i had produced that frog, i would have taken it upin myself to unproduce it. C02 or something maybee. But thats just me, id hate to think that somewhere allong the line it could breed back inuntentionally.

I'm not sure I could bring myself to actually euthanize a frog simply because I had mistakenly allowed a hybrid to come into the world. I would make very sure it never had a chance to propagate itself. But I understand your concern...I suppose the best policy is species separation to avoid the problem in the first place.

Bill

 

[christina hanson]

You know guys, this hybrid was produced many years ago. At that point it was the "understanding" that if you had pairs of frogs that were established in tanks hybridization would not occur. So that myth was busted, as they say on TV. However, these hybrids were isolated from other frogs, breeding was never an issue as they were all females. Also, as I stated above, even though I still have the community tank (it's very popular at the college) no eggs are ever pulled. I absolutely agree with you that hybrids should not be sold as new morphs or even as oddities. Todd and I have always tried to delineate the lines of our frogs and understand their value.

Mark has been to our house several times and I'm sure he has seen this hybrid. Mark covets everything we have, of course, like our cat and Sugar Ram the Woody. I guess his incredibly subtle humor got the best of you.

As for euthanization of frogs, that's a whole new topic, but no, I would not euthanize these animals for my own carlessness, I have enough confidence in my own self control to not offer these up for sale as a new morph.

Christina

 

[markpulawski]

Hybrid

I covet a basement so i can have a frog collection again!!! It's great to see such passion in this hobby, fortunately most of us do the right thing. I am on a waiting list for one of Todd and Christina's cat's as well as the elusive and quickly aging Azuremelas! I would settle for a green Bastimentos though (I've always had a generous nature).
Mark

 

[Guest]

As for euthanization of frogs, that's a whole new topic, but no, I would not euthanize these animals for my own carlessness, I have enough confidence in my own self control to not offer these up for sale as a new morph.

But your allready one mistake closer, and only one mistake away. The point in not allowing these morphs to be produced, is so they dont get the chane to damage the geene pool. By allowing one to live, who knows???, and by being the creator of that animal, its your responsiblity.

Id just hate to have my name in some future nature journal as the guy who fugged up dart frogs.

Just look at the mess they made of Orangutans, and these were PRO'S, and it was actually the conservatin effort itself that's destroyed them.

your choice, but its a weak decision. (not that thats really whats being discussed here, but i thought id offer my feelings)

 

[stevendart14]

In order for anyone to call a new morph I am pretty sure it would be looked into first. And you would need multiple bloodlines of that type of frog even to make it a potiential problem. Since still many people believe in not producing hybrids. Inbreeding for long generations will destroy the frog immune system(and other stuff)IMO. :roll:

 

[Arklier]

But your allready one mistake closer, and only one mistake away. The point in not allowing these morphs to be produced, is so they dont get the chane to damage the geene pool. By allowing one to live, who knows???, and by being the creator of that animal, its your responsiblity.

Yeah, and allowing homosexuals to marry leads us flying down a slippery slope where the human race dies out because there's no straight people left to have kids.

These hybrids have obviously been around for a long time, if they were made when it was considered OK to have pairs of different species in the same tank and they wouldn't interbreed. These particular hybrids haven't screwed up the hobby yet, have they?

 

[christina hanson]

Well in this case the frogs were all female, so I don't think they've contributed to the demise of the hobby. Franky I thought that after the cross occurred the responsible thing to do was to get it documented so there would never be an questions, and even if capable they never would have been bred.

I really do respect your militicism on the issue of hybrids, but I think you're confusing my intentions.

To reiterate, they were proven pairs in a 90 gallon display tank at a college, at that point (1996) the prevailing thought was paired frogs would mate with their "own". Also, these were leucs and azureus, not tincs and azureus. That in fact turned out to be false and no more eggs were ever taken from that tank. I do not believe in euthanasia unless the animal is suffering. I hope we have not lost sight of the fact that these are pets and we have to take responsibility for what we produce.

Christina

 

[stevendart14]

Yes,
This is what I was thinking. I couldn't kill a perfectly healthy egg, tadpole. or frog. Thats why I wanted to have a program for hybrids due to the fact that many people will not and can not kill a frog. This was not intentionable and was handled the right way I see no problem. A few frogs messing up the whole hobby. :?

 

[Guest]

hybrids

id somebody keeps two different species in the same tank and they cross breed its their responsibility to care for them and their offspring. theres obvious moral implications of killing a frog which you are responsibel for just because its a hybrid and i dont know about in the USA but here in britain it would be illegal.