Dendroboard banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone here tried Command, Click, Reward Training with frogs?

I've seen this video of tincs being trained to climb a pot, that could be switched to a scale if they need weighting the frog, so I got curious

I know it is possible for fish to learn tricks, like following pointers, hi-five, passing hoops and all, so I'd like to hear you guys experiences!
 

·
Registered
Dendrobates Tinctorus “Azureus”, Epipedobates Anthonyi “Santa Isabel”, and also myself.
Joined
·
524 Posts
Does anyone here tried Command, Click, Reward Training with frogs?

I've seen this video of tincs being trained to climb a pot, that could be switched to a scale if they need weighting the frog, so I got curious

I know it is possible for fish to learn tricks, like following pointers, hi-five, passing hoops and all, so I'd like to hear you guys experiences!
This would be hilarious!

I honestly doubt you can train a frog. Not only would it might put them in stress, it wouldn’t work. I’ve never seen anyone train a frog before! However, my family thinks they can train my crestie. I wouldn’t put a penny on it but maybe it could happen...
 

·
Registered
Nothing at the moment
Joined
·
90 Posts
Not only did Ivan Pavlov have a dog. He also had a frog.
Never heard of this, but I think there is the possibility that frogs may get accustomed to the same motions of feeding each day?


Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Not only did Ivan Pavlov have a dog. He also had a frog.
Never heard of this, but I think there is the possibility that frogs may get accustomed to the same motions of feeding each day?


Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
This would be hilarious!

I honestly doubt you can train a frog. Not only would it might put them in stress, it wouldn’t work. I’ve never seen anyone train a frog before! However, my family thinks they can train my crestie. I wouldn’t put a penny on it but maybe it could happen...



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I posted in some Facebook groups other people said they have seen PDF trained with clickers in Zoos

I've seen people training cichlids to answer questions about colors and shapes already I think it's just a matter of method... I wish someone already tried
 

·
Registered
Dendrobates Tinctorus “Azureus”, Epipedobates Anthonyi “Santa Isabel”, and also myself.
Joined
·
524 Posts
Interesting...

Once again, I wonder if the frogs were stressed though. I think they may have been at first but they slowly come out of their shell.

I think when people think of dart frogs as pets, they think they can be trained. Yes, in a way but I doubt they would be able to learn how to do high-fives. Frogs are fragile, easily stressed, and can get injured or even die when in contact with certain chemicals on your hand. Dart frogs are not dogs or cats, you enjoy them behind a glass tank. They’ll be happy and you’ll be happy. Training is just pushing their limits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Interesting...

Once again, I wonder if the frogs were stressed though. I think they may have been at first but they slowly come out of their shell.

I think when people think of dart frogs as pets, they think they can be trained. Yes, in a way but I doubt they would be able to learn how to do high-fives. Frogs are fragile, easily stressed, and can get injured or even die when in contact with certain chemicals on your hand. Dart frogs are not dogs or cats, you enjoy them behind a glass tank. They’ll be happy and you’ll be happy. Training is just pushing their limits.
I don't want them to hi five me man, look beyond what I say literally
Wouldn't it be nice if they could hop into a cup without you going were and grabbing and stressing it if you need to move them around?

Or maybe when someone visits and say "where is the frog you told us about?" you could just ring a bell or something and they come out to say hi, the weighting I mention above for example, simple things you know?
 

·
Registered
Dendrobates Tinctorus “Azureus”, Epipedobates Anthonyi “Santa Isabel”, and also myself.
Joined
·
524 Posts
I don't want them to hi five me man, look beyond what I say literally
Wouldn't it be nice if they could hop into a cup without you going were and grabbing and stressing it if you need to move them around?

Or maybe when someone visits and say "where is the frog you told us about?" you could just ring a bell or something and they come out to say hi, the weighting I mention above for example, simple things you know?
You can get them into a cup pretty easily if the frog isn’t skittish. Not too hard.

Forcing a frog to be in sight can also be a stress factor. Of course, you wouldn’t be forcing it but same idea.

It was an example. You mentioned that fish can do high-fives so I took that as an example even if that’s what fish can do, not frogs. Sorry for the confusion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Forcing a frog to be in sight can also be a stress factor. Of course, you wouldn’t be forcing it but same idea.
You aren't forcing if they come by their own because of the food incentive, is not like you pulling up their Coco hut to make them be in the open

I shouldn't mentioned the hi-5... You know I've seen one research with cichlids as well I can't recall if it was about defending nests or school reaction

With a arrangements of mirrors they make it seem like the fish on the side of the fish studied wasn't really trying to contact/ defend the fish in front of it, was only pretending to go, while the other was really going at it

That makes the fish studied turn and bump into the fish on the side "like c'mon dude help me out here"
It's all the same fish but very interesting to see
 

·
Registered
Dendrobates Tinctorus “Azureus”, Epipedobates Anthonyi “Santa Isabel”, and also myself.
Joined
·
524 Posts
You aren't forcing if they come by their own because of the food incentive, is not like you pulling up their Coco hut to make them be in the open

I shouldn't mentioned the hi-5... You know I've seen one research with cichlids as well I can't recall if it was about defending nests or school reaction

With a arrangements of mirrors they make it seem like the fish on the side of the fish studied wasn't really trying to contact/ defend the fish in front of it, was only pretending to go, while the other was really going at it

That makes the fish studied turn and bump into the fish on the side "like c'mon dude help me out here"
It's all the same fish but very interesting to see
You aren’t forcing them but you’re not letting them take a break. If they come out, that’s all fine but if they don’t and you’ve seriously tried it a bunch of times, then it’s better to leave them go. If you want to get them to come out, a bolder frog, food, or a creative tank design might be better than ringing a bell.

That fish study is interesting. Do you mind linking it?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,731 Posts
What is the purpose for a home hobbyist to do this? How does it benefit the frogs?

It can be misused by people who dont even understand typical behaviors, stress, of frogs, but become enamored with " training" for their own entertainment and "Views" etc.
The public has become psychologically View Sick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
376 Posts
I understand behavioral experiments (that don't harm the animals) in the context of scientists studying animal cognition, but don't think there's a need for hobbyists to attempt this for an array of reasons.

I've never had to weigh a frog and would hazard a guess that outside of the lab no one needs to.

As for visibility for your visitors, tapping a fruit fly container ought to be more than sufficient for bolder species like terribilis and tinctorius, if they aren't already at the door begging or threatening you.

For shy, introverted frogs? May as well respect their privacy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You aren’t forcing them but you’re not letting them take a break. If they come out, that’s all fine but if they don’t and you’ve seriously tried it a bunch of times, then it’s better to leave them go. If you want to get them to come out, a bolder frog, food, or a creative tank design might be better than ringing a bell.

That fish study is interesting. Do you mind linking it?
But if they come for a incentive that they are seeking it is still voluntary, no different of them learning door open, spray, food and hop forward

I tried to find while I was writing it, I couldn't find, the only one I found is the one in wired with "Male Fish Dislike Their Reflections"
 

·
Registered
Dendrobates Tinctorus “Azureus”, Epipedobates Anthonyi “Santa Isabel”, and also myself.
Joined
·
524 Posts
But if they come for a incentive that they are seeking it is still voluntary, no different of them learning door open, spray, food and hop forward

I tried to find while I was writing it, I couldn't find, the only one I found is the one in wired with "Male Fish Dislike Their Reflections"
Like the other guys said, there is not benefit whatsoever on doing this. Plus, don’t you think the loud sound will do the opposite? So much other ways, so much greater outcomes.

Thanks by the way!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,731 Posts
A concern is that there will be inevitable variables in appropriating this activity outside of a zoo setting. Many details require interdisciplinary training in 'experiment design' and background knowledge.

It can become a badly executed stressor very easily and without any real purpose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
A concern is that there will be inevitable variables in appropriating this activity outside of a zoo setting. Many details require interdisciplinary training in 'experiment design' and background knowledge.

It can become a badly executed stressor very easily and without any real purpose.
Why you think I need a credential to teach simple behaviours to my pets?

If something stuff like weighting, head count, visual health checks, and stimulus to the captive animal don't convince you guys, I don't know what will, maybe because would be fun? Interact other than just watch them maybe?

I didn't expect you guys, in a group of frogs, would be so close minded to teach frogs things
 

·
Registered
Dendrobates Tinctorus “Azureus”, Epipedobates Anthonyi “Santa Isabel”, and also myself.
Joined
·
524 Posts
Why you think I need a credential to teach simple behaviours to a pet?

If something stuff like weighting, head count, visual health checks, and stimulus to the captive animal don't convince you guys, I don't know what will, maybe because would be fun? Interact other than just watch them maybe?

I didn't expect you guys, in a group of frogs, would be so close minded to teach frogs things
A zoo has experienced zookeepers and veterinarians on the spot. Not saying no one except a zoo can attempt this successfully but the regular hobbyist can get nowhere near the level of experience and success of a zoological institute. Not even experienced hobbyist can mix and train animals successfully.

Frogs are fragile creatures. It’s so much better off to let them go. Not to mention interaction with them can stress the frog to the point of death. You can hold a snake and gently pet some lizards but you can’t interact with dart frogs. It’s just not safe for them.

(interact as in bothering them. No offense.)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,642 Posts
I didn't expect you guys, in a group of frogs, would be so close minded to teach frogs things
It isn't closed-mindedness, it is that folks here tend to give prudent advice. There isn't anything wrong with basic operant conditioning (so long is it uses only positive reinforcement, anyway) -- as mentioned above, most of us do so unconsciously, sometimes.

The resistance you're getting is likely mostly due to this coming way, way too early. Getting husbandry down pat (which takes much longer than many people guess -- it is longer than months) should be the goal before harassing the frogs with stimuli that may or may not alter their behavior in undesirable ways, behavior which someone who isn't exceedingly familiar with baseline behavior couldn't possibly recognize.
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top