[Homer]

For those of you with access to a decent 'scope, here are some good websites that should help you get an idea of the concepts involved in doing a fecal sample yourself.

http://www.microscope-microscope.org/ap ... alysis.htm

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm

While the animals on which the fecals are being run are different, the process and concepts are universal. Further, the genera of parasites that are of consequence tend to be readily identified by researching the appropriate texts. However, you can get a pretty good overview from some of the excellent pics available on many websites. With that info, almost anyone should be able to at least point their vet in the right direction, especially if they have a copy of the coveted amphibian husbandry book that keeps popping up.

If you have a large collection, or just a proclivity to enjoy microbiology, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to plunk down the money to buy a decent 'scope and do your own fecals. Once you've done 10, you've paid for your scope.

I'm just curious as to how many other froggers out there do their own fecals? Give a shout out!

 

[khoff]

I got a microscope on the way, and I'm gonna try and see how it works out. Thanks for the great links.

 

[addam4208283]

I have a ton of information on this stuff because of my work I should post some pics. and other info; might help you guys out.
Just so you guys know doing a fecal float on PDF crap won’t work to well, instead do smears, this will give you a better sample to look at. You would only do a float if you had something like a teaspoons worth of crap. With a smear all you need is a very small amount. I have done both methods with great results, but I think the smear works out a little better.
Hope this helps.
ADAM

 

[melissa68]

Thanks Homer!!!

Thanks Homer for the info.

Melis

 

[Homer]

Thanks, Adam! I was planning on running tests using both the smear and float methods to see which was more effective, but it sounds like you answered my question already.

Let me ask you, in your experience, have you found that a vast number of captive born frogs have parasites? I have heard it said that this was true, but find it a questionable statement . . . particularly considering the source.

 

[addam4208283]

I first off want to say that I am not an expert on this subject. I have done probably about ten to fifteen frog fecals with another tech, and doctor at my work who are far more experienced in this then I. some of these fecals include both my frogs as well as a coworkers whites tree frog. But with that said about 85-90% of all the fecals done have had some sort of parasite in them.

Also I have not forgotten about the pics. I promised. I have a few from a fecal I have done on my frogs last week but I am going to see if I can get some others pics like cocci. just so you guys can compare to. Unfortunately they will probably come from a dog/cat because my frogs did not have this as a parasite; but in any case at least it’s something that you guys can refer to.

i hope this helps.
ADAM

 

[Homer]

Thanks for the info!

 

[Homer]

Do you know if the frogs you tested were cb or wc?

 

[addam4208283]

CB.
ADAM

 

[addam4208283]

Or at least that’s what i assumed them to be. Other then my coworkers and the four I have mainly the rest come from petco, and petsmart.
ADAM

 

[Homer]

While possible, I doubt that most animals from Petco or Petsmart are cb. Additionally, I can definitely see a good chance for cross-contamination due to their poor attention to cleaning tanks between use and their penchant for mixing animals (i.e. green anoles--usually wc--with tree frogs).

Dr. Frye used to advertise that 80% of the frogs he tested had 3 or more parasites. That doesn't really get at my question, though. I'm trying to determine what the percentage of average cb frogs in the hobby have parasites--not the percentage of all frogs taken to a vet. Most people are going to get fecals when their frogs start behaving poorly. I would also venture to guess that nearly all (if not truly all) wc animals have parasites. So that muddies the statistics a bit (a lot, actually).

I was just wondering whether anyone was doing proactive fecals on their collections and what their experiences were with percentages of infected frogs. While it is intuitive that bacteria could be easily transmitted from parent to offspring, the infective mechanism for other parasites to be transmitted to offspring when the eggs are collected from a petri dish is not so obvious (unless feces are left on the petri dish). That leads me to believe that the rate of parasitically infected animals that are cb should be significantly lower than wc, and that comports with common reasoning in the pet hobby as a whole. I was just interested in seeing whether common reasoning bore out in reality.

 

[melissa68]

Good questions

Homer,

You make some really valid points. I don't think anyone in the df community doubts Dr. Frye's numbers, results or his findings, but you make a good point that many (not all) of the animals who were tested might have been showing other symptoms.

Without someone putting up a post...."send us your froggie poop for a study..." it would be hard to gather good numbers. Plus, there are so many other factors to take into consideration as well. Protocols, supplies, ect would need to be created so each sample arriving to be tested would conform to basic criteria. It would be interesting to speak with other vets who treat zoological or other large collections to see what they have found.

Melis

While possible, I doubt that most animals from Petco or Petsmart are cb. Additionally, I can definitely see a good chance for cross-contamination due to their poor attention to cleaning tanks between use and their penchant for mixing animals (i.e. green anoles--usually wc--with tree frogs).

Dr. Frye used to advertise that 80% of the frogs he tested had 3 or more parasites. That doesn't really get at my question, though. I'm trying to determine what the percentage of average cb frogs in the hobby have parasites--not the percentage of all frogs taken to a vet. Most people are going to get fecals when their frogs start behaving poorly. I would also venture to guess that nearly all (if not truly all) wc animals have parasites. So that muddies the statistics a bit (a lot, actually).

I was just wondering whether anyone was doing proactive fecals on their collections and what their experiences were with percentages of infected frogs. While it is intuitive that bacteria could be easily transmitted from parent to offspring, the infective mechanism for other parasites to be transmitted to offspring when the eggs are collected from a petri dish is not so obvious (unless feces are left on the petri dish). That leads me to believe that the rate of parasitically infected animals that are cb should be significantly lower than wc, and that comports with common reasoning in the pet hobby as a whole. I was just interested in seeing whether common reasoning bore out in reality.

 

[addam4208283]

Here is a pic. of a nematode.

And another.

 

[addam4208283]

Here is a quick pic. of a ciliate; this pic. is taken under 40X.

I forgot to add that the nematode pics. were taken under 10X.

Hope this helps you guys out a little.
ADAM

 

[addam4208283]

Here is another pic. that I took, I am not 100% sure because of the quality of the pic. But I believe this is cocci.

Something else I forgot to mention above is that you can see both the ciliate, as well as the nematode moving around. The ciliate you notice movement less compared to the nematode.

hope this helps
ADAM

 

[addam4208283]

Cocci. was taken under 40X with min. oil.
ADAM

 

[Guest]

I am new to the list. I work as and RVT for a an exotic vet. I do numerous fecal exams daily on reptiles and birds, but not a lot of frogs. I just recently aquired some captive bred dart frogs, and have found larval worms in their stool that I strongly suspect are strongyloides. I have also found these parasites in a milk frog.
Has anyone treated frogs with this parasite and had success? I am getting ready to put these animals in a planted vivarium and do not want to contaminate the tank and then have to replant it later. One of the other techs at our practice has been trying to clear her frogs on these worms with no success.

 

[snmreptiles]

What kind of scope is needed?

I just got on EBAY to look at prices of microscopes and am COMPLETELY lost!! I have wanted a microscope since getting the book "Understanding Reptile Parasites" by Roger Klingenberg! A GREAT BOOK btw. Anyway what am I looking for as far as options and others.

Thanks,
MIKE

 

[Arklier]

Decent microscopes are expensive. One that's not a toy will run you several hundred dollars. If you're only going to be doing a few fecals, then it's better to get the vet to do it.

 

[khoff]

I disagree. You don't need anything too fancy run a basic fecal. I picked up a microscope that was a college lab's old equipment (off of ebay). It was like $50 and I have done fecals with it. The only hard part about fecals is identifying what you see. Hopefully the book you have will help with that. What you should be looking for is a basic compound microscope (just like the ones everybody used to use in high school). I wouldn't worry too much about picking up a used one, they are relatively easy to take apart and clean if needed (at least mine was). Hope this helps.

Kevin Hoff