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I have access to a microscope. Is it possible to preform a simple fecal? I would be mainly looking for worms and parasites. Advice? Pictures?
 

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This is the best how-to that I found. Others may chime in with the best one they've found.

HOW TO DO FECAL EXAMS
This is a great DIY, however this is not for the novice (13 year old). I am a teacher, I have worked with your age group. Microscopes are great tools and I am sure you would love to look at poo, but you are not ready to diagnose your frogs with parasites. Not all parasites are bad, and some in balance are fine for your frogs.
 

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Jason is right. I would probably say either find a frogger in your area that is interested in doing the fecals to help you out. Or shipping the samples to a lab to do the analysis. A local veterinary clinic really wouldn't have the resources to properly identify frog endoparasites. I have the benefit of seeing Dr. Elliot Jacobson on a daily basis at the Univ of FL Veterinary School and usually ask him questions.

I would say if you can acquire some of the cheap laboratory supplies seen in the how-to, then great but if not, I would probably ship fecals or find a frogger locally with microbiology skills.
 

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Also, it's very easy to mistake certain things as eggs, etc. I have a year experience doing monkey and dog fecals and you need a centerfuge. Just a microscope at your house is a fun little project but unless your a scientist of some sort or trained, don't even bother.

To do a fecal, once you finally get the slide ready, you have to go up and down slowly covering every single spot on the sample. Usually an hour and it's BORING.

I had some ideas of doing this on my own but I quickly decided not to.
D
 

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Oh c'mon, by reading his posts you can tell he's not an average 13 year old. His grammar and use of punctuation is better than a LOT of older folks on these boards. Don't write him off so easily, examining fecals for parasites may not be something that is easily done but give him some credit.
This is a great DIY, however this is not for the novice (13 year old). I am a teacher, I have worked with your age group. Microscopes are great tools and I am sure you would love to look at poo, but you are not ready to diagnose your frogs with parasites. Not all parasites are bad, and some in balance are fine for your frogs.
 

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Also, it's very easy to mistake certain things as eggs, etc. I have a year experience doing monkey and dog fecals and you need a centerfuge. Just a microscope at your house is a fun little project but unless your a scientist of some sort or trained, don't even bother.

To do a fecal, once you finally get the slide ready, you have to go up and down slowly covering every single spot on the sample. Usually an hour and it's BORING.

I had some ideas of doing this on my own but I quickly decided not to.
D

Dendrobatid fecals are usually done as direct exams as they are so small. As a further issue, care has to be taken to not destroy some of the coccidians that may be present as some do not tolerate hypersaline floats..

As a broad grouping, the parasites are usually identifiable by a decently trained vet tech even if they didn't previously do fecals on frogs and questions can be looked up or consulted to get a correct identification. If there is real interest in looking at the fecals, the first step should be aquiring a copy of Understanding Reptile Parasites: A Basic Manual for Herpetoculturists & Veterinarians (see Amazon.com: Understanding Reptile Parasites: A Basic Manual for Herpetoculturists & Veterinarians (Herpetocultural Library - Spec) (9781882770212): Roger Klingenberg: Books ). After reviewing the needed techniques, attempts can be made on reading a fecal or two. It would be a good idea to get fecals read by a professional as well to make sure that they are being read correctly.

Ed
 

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Oh c'mon, by reading his posts you can tell he's not an average 13 year old. His grammar and use of punctuation is better than a LOT of older folks on these boards. Don't write him off so easily, examining fecals for parasites may not be something that is easily done but give him some credit.
Really... What is your degree in, experience...qualifications...professional development...
 

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Really... What is your degree in, experience...qualifications...professional development...
Not trying to play devils advocate, but in 8th grade (13 yrs old) I was required in my high school to be able to identify different bacteria, protozoa, different kinds of cells of plants animals etc... And I am not talking about just guess which one it is out of multiple choice, we had to be able to draw them from memory very detailed of what we saw in slides under the microscope. My point being is that the only difference between a novice being able to spot these things and a professional is experience. So if he has someone to double check his findings as Ed mentioned and he continues down that path I don't see why he would not be ready.

Second point:

I used to work in a laboratory where we tested the effects of deep oil drilling on the native eco systems where the drilling was being done, to assess if their methods were satisfactory or not. I was a complete beginner and I was/am not a scientist, yet the main lab scientist just showed me what to do and checked my work. The work was not mentally challenging nor was it something a 13 yr old couldn't do. All I needed was someone to show me how to do it and check my work until I got the hang of it.

My point being you can't just write someone off because of their age, if they are willing and have a mentor I am sure they can do simple identification tasks.
 

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How quickly you've turned this into a pissing contest teach.

Im glad I never had a teacher like you, I might have dropped out in the sixth grade. :rolleyes:
Really... What is your degree in, experience...qualifications...professional development...
 

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How quickly you've turned this into a pissing contest teach.

Im glad I never had a teacher like you, I might have dropped out in the sixth grade. :rolleyes:
It is teachers like this that have no place in schools where children are present.

I had a teacher like this back in 1st grade who didn't much believe in her students. Thanks to her I and so many others in my class ended up in special ed the following year. Thankfully she was fired as a result before it could happen to even more children, but the permanently damaged path this lead many of the students from the class in is frightening.

If a child is headed in the right path towards something, encourage it, nurture it, etc!!!

To the OP if this is something you are really interested in perusing do not give up because some adult tells you that you will never succeed.
 

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Arpeggio, you never cease to amaze me. I hope you'll post the results of your fecals (with pics!). :D

(and by 'your fecals' I of course mean the frog's fecals, lol)
 

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Thanks for those who stood up for and are encouraging the OP. Unfortunately I was discouraged a lot in school. I would say just use the opportunity to prove people wrong! The information you need is out there.

I was thinking of trying this myself... Perhaps I'll go for it now. It might take me a while to buy equipment, but I've got the rest of my life to learn anyway, right? The bio degree helps... Just before anybody tells me I'm not qualified :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
:eek:

This won't be my first time. We've prepared slides and looked at protozoans, the epidermis of lettuce, even our own cheek cells. I think I will try it, though.
 

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I have access to a microscope. Is it possible to preform a simple fecal? I would be mainly looking for worms and parasites. Advice? Pictures?
The op asked for advise and pics because he was interested in learning something new. As members of a forum we should point him in the right direction such as Ed and the other gentlemen were doing with supplying links to that information. If he does this, regardless of his age, and thinks he finds anything of concern then he could submit fecals to a vet to have the frog professionally diagnosed and then treated. My point is....all too often on forums people are sized up based on a perceived experience level or intelligence and then dismissed. We should instead provide them with the proper information and resources and then let them deside if it is something they think they could do. Reading through the fecal article it doesn't seem like an easy task but if the op feels up to the challenge I encourage him to do it. Maybe he grows up and becomes this awesome herp vet that us older people send our frogs fecals too. Good luck buddy and don't let anybody ever tell you that you shouldn't try to learn something because it will be too difficult....only you can make that decision for yourself.
 

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Arpeggio,
I think your asking cause your just interested in what you might be able to see.
Check out this thread.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/66614-strongyloides.html

I don't claim to "run fecals" on my frogs, but I have looked at quite a few, just to see what I might see. I just add one turd and a few drops of water and mix to seperate into a slurry. It was/is interesting for me. I was surprised to see full ant bodies, ant and termite heads don't digest. I was also surprised by the amount of sand particles, and wondered if sand doesn't maybe help them digest.
I was just curious like you, especially after reading some threads that state "our frogs are just a bucket of worms", except for my one sick frog, I very rarely see any worms. But I know there is a vast array of things besides worms that can cause problems in our frogs that I won't identify by simply looking at some liquid poo.
 

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It was/is interesting for me. I was surprised to see full ant bodies, ant and termite heads don't digest.
In a number of taxa that feeds on high fiber (chitin) food sources, pinworms (oxyurids) play a role in assisting in digestion. In the other taxa these mechanically break down the higher chitin items.


I was also surprised by the amount of sand particles, and wondered if sand doesn't maybe help them digest.
It doesn't help them digest... but it is an important indication of how some nutrients enter the frog... for example, calcium can be aquired by ingestion of particles of soil while capturing the prey. This is where substrate can be important.
 

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How quickly you've turned this into a pissing contest teach.

Im glad I never had a teacher like you, I might have dropped out in the sixth grade. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

:eek:

This won't be my first time. We've prepared slides and looked at protozoans, the epidermis of lettuce, even our own cheek cells. I think I will try it, though.
I am assuming you are doing this at school where risk are managed. There are zoonotic infectious diseases that put you at risk. It is not something I am going to recommend students to do. There are precautions such as gloves you need to follow.

Looking for fun is one thing to do (science fair) is one thing, examining to make a diagnosis is another. Fecals refer to examination and diagnosis of an issue. This is something that needs to be done by a trained eye. I have ran fecals from my experience working with a vet and zoo. It takes time to learn.
 

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It is teachers like this that have no place in schools where children are present.

I had a teacher like this back in 1st grade who didn't much believe in her students. Thanks to her I and so many others in my class ended up in special ed the following year. Thankfully she was fired as a result before it could happen to even more children, but the permanently damaged path this lead many of the students from the class in is frightening.

If a child is headed in the right path towards something, encourage it, nurture it, etc!!!

To the OP if this is something you are really interested in perusing do not give up because some adult tells you that you will never succeed.

since I actually have a 4th grader at the school Jason teaches at, I will say this is a bogus comment. I believe he is just being honest.
 
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