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Discussion Starter #1
I need some advice....*


We've found a few unwanted insects in my house and we're having treatment for the house (insecticide gel and some localized insecticide spray in problem areas).*

I'll need to move the frogs out but what about the tanks? Can they be left in?
I think I know the answer, but I'm asking anyways.
 

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I guess depends on the product you used. If it’s last for a couple of days maybe you can let there the tanks sealing them well.


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I don't know what 'insecticide gel' is. Could you clarify?

Spraying -- if permethrin or other synthetic pyrethroid, this chemical is pretty toxic, but once it settles on a surface, it stays there and doesn't cause trouble to anything that doesn't touch the surface; the surface stays toxic for weeks/months.

I would remove the vivs, do the spray, wait 24 hrs, air the place out well, then return the vivs without worry. Source: I spray a fair amount of permethrin (coat the outside of the house/pool/decks for wasps; barn surfaces; spray directly on livestock for insect control; spray camping/hiking clothes for tick and mosquito control), and so have done a good bit of reading. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't know what 'insecticide gel' is. Could you clarify?

Spraying -- if permethrin or other synthetic pyrethroid, this chemical is pretty toxic, but once it settles on a surface, it stays there and doesn't cause trouble to anything that doesn't touch the surface; the surface stays toxic for weeks/months.

I would remove the vivs, do the spray, wait 24 hrs, air the place out well, then return the vivs without worry. Source: I spray a fair amount of permethrin (coat the outside of the house/pool/decks for wasps; barn surfaces; spray directly on livestock for insect control; spray camping/hiking clothes for tick and mosquito control), and so have done a good bit of reading. :)
Thanks for this.

I'm not sure I can clarify what the insecticide gel is. The pest removal place just said they're using an " insecticide gel ", they did note that it would be safe to bring frogs/reptiles back into the house 3 days after the insecticide treatment.
 

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Thanks for this.

I'm not sure I can clarify what the insecticide gel is. The pest removal place just said they're using an " insecticide gel ", they did note that it would be safe to bring frogs/reptiles back into the house 3 days after the insecticide treatment.

That’s what I tried to tell you. Some pests expert use insecticide gel or pest bombs. It’s not safe coming back after a couple of days. But sealing the tank I guess is no problem because the product tends to fall dawn and stick to the surfaces. If it’s not possible to remove the tanks I’d seal them using adhesive tape and covering them with plastic during the intervention.
And after that, one day after, I’d eliminate the plastic covering and eliminate only part of the adhesive tape.
But best removing the tanks if it’s possible.


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Discussion Starter #6
That’s what I tried to tell you. Some pests expert use insecticide gel or pest bombs. It’s not safe coming back after a couple of days. But sealing the tank I guess is no problem because the product tends to fall dawn and stick to the surfaces. If it’s not possible to remove the tanks I’d seal them using adhesive tape and covering them with plastic during the intervention.
And after that, one day after, I’d eliminate the plastic covering and eliminate only part of the adhesive tape.
But best removing the tanks if it’s possible.


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Thanks!

My plan is to remove the frogs from the tanks, and take the frogs / tanks somewhere else for 3 days and then bring them all back.

Luckily I can take the frogs to my parents' house for the 3 days.
 

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Update, they did the pest control on the 28th, I brought the frogs back in today.

And, of course, we found another pest today after the frogs were back.

The chemicals they used were dragnet, pyrethrine, and drione.

We'll need to have the house treated again... I REALLY don't want to have to catch the frogs and take their tanks back out of my house again. My tanks are big and very heavy.

Thoughts on the viability of sealing the vivariums up with Saran wrap (plastic wrap) and leaving them in the house?

@Socratic Monologue
 

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FWIW, I looked up the insecticides.

Pyrethin (I'm guessing 'pyrethrine' is a typo?) is an organic product with quick knock-down and little residual effect.

Drione is just diatomaceous earth with pyrethrin in it. I've used this, and it doesn't even kill many listed target insects (ground bees, carpenter bees). It gets around, though, since it is a dust.

Dragnet is simply a brand name of permethrin -- a synthetic pyrethroid with residual effect of a month or more. It will settle onto, and more or less bind to, surfaces and stay there. This last point makes it really effective for long action against crawling sorts of insects, and makes it safer for non-target organisms since it stays put.

I'd be less worried if they were spot treating surfaces -- broadcast spraying seems to get into everything.

I don't have any real expertise to speak about these things, so take this for what it is. I think if I were to decide to seal up the vivs, I would do it with heavy plastic (lawn trash bags or plastic drop cloths) and tape the seams, and leave it sealed for at least a day after spraying and with a good airing of the room before unsealing. If I did this, personally, I would feel safe.

I have no doubt that you're only doing this out of necessity, but I hope that whatever pest you're trying to kill is worth this. I also assume that the pest control people have ruled out alternatives like insect growth regulators, which AFAIK are basically non toxic to vertebrates.

I hope this goes well for you -- I'm confident it will. :)
 

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FWIW, I looked up the insecticides.

Pyrethin (I'm guessing 'pyrethrine' is a typo?) is an organic product with quick knock-down and little residual effect.

Drione is just diatomaceous earth with pyrethrin in it. I've used this, and it doesn't even kill many listed target insects (ground bees, carpenter bees). It gets around, though, since it is a dust.

Dragnet is simply a brand name of permethrin -- a synthetic pyrethroid with residual effect of a month or more. It will settle onto, and more or less bind to, surfaces and stay there. This last point makes it really effective for long action against crawling sorts of insects, and makes it safer for non-target organisms since it stays put.

I'd be less worried if they were spot treating surfaces -- broadcast spraying seems to get into everything.

I don't have any real expertise to speak about these things, so take this for what it is. I think if I were to decide to seal up the vivs, I would do it with heavy plastic (lawn trash bags or plastic drop cloths) and tape the seams, and leave it sealed for at least a day after spraying and with a good airing of the room before unsealing. If I did this, personally, I would feel safe.

I have no doubt that you're only doing this out of necessity, but I hope that whatever pest you're trying to kill is worth this. I also assume that the pest control people have ruled out alternatives like insect growth regulators, which AFAIK are basically non toxic to vertebrates.

I hope this goes well for you -- I'm confident it will. :)
Thank you for this. It means a lot.
 

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*I used to kill bugs for a living. It was a long time ago and I was pretty young. Things may have changed and/or I could be an idiot.


You mention you found another pest in the house after treatment. I’m guessing you’re treating for a species that 1) does not commonly enter the home and 2) is intolerable in any quantity.

To treat the pests that fit those criteria, a growth regular is typically used, like @Socratic mentioned.

If it’s a more common pest that sometimes comes inside from outdoors, you’ll never achieve 100% elimination. Chemicals usually have EITHER quick knockdown or a long effective lifespan. So bugs will still cross the threshold but eventually (probably) die. The long lasting stuff is typically applied to surfaces with a pump sprayer so there is little aerosolization.

I apply that stuff to my own home every summer, including a few cracks and crevices around the frog room, using a low pressure pump sprayer. I do not seal or move the frogs for this.

If someone was treating any part of the house with a “bug bomb” type aerosol, I would pursue the actions you’ve taken.
 

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How about we actually name the species?

Are we talking about roaches? Because Red Runners caused me a bunch of problems in my last animal job.

What are we discussing here? What sp?
 

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How about we actually name the species?

Are we talking about roaches? Because Red Runners caused me a bunch of problems in my last animal job.

What are we discussing here? What sp?
Some folks might appreciate the space to speak in more general terms, since the specifics likely aren't relevant to the viv situation. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
*I used to kill bugs for a living. It was a long time ago and I was pretty young. Things may have changed and/or I could be an idiot.





You mention you found another pest in the house after treatment. I’m guessing you’re treating for a species that 1) does not commonly enter the home and 2) is intolerable in any quantity.



To treat the pests that fit those criteria, a growth regular is typically used, like @Socratic mentioned.



If it’s a more common pest that sometimes comes inside from outdoors, you’ll never achieve 100% elimination. Chemicals usually have EITHER quick knockdown or a long effective lifespan. So bugs will still cross the threshold but eventually (probably) die. The long lasting stuff is typically applied to surfaces with a pump sprayer so there is little aerosolization.



I apply that stuff to my own home every summer, including a few cracks and crevices around the frog room, using a low pressure pump sprayer. I do not seal or move the frogs for this.



If someone was treating any part of the house with a “bug bomb” type aerosol, I would pursue the actions you’ve taken.
Thanks for this!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
How about we actually name the species?

Are we talking about roaches? Because Red Runners caused me a bunch of problems in my last animal job.

What are we discussing here? What sp?
The dreaded household roaches... Found in our kitchen by my bug-phobic wife. (She BARELY tolerates the fruit flies for the frogs)
 

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Right - I get it.

The babies have even more remarkable entry abilities into moist, opulent circumstances.

Man I get it.

Identify the sp and move with more power. I noticed I had brought home some red runners from my job and they self located where it was warm and moist. Mostly my wifes plant pots, I extracted the plants outside and submerged he pots in scalding water, then started over. No infest beyond the initial topical discovery and PIA stat action.

However I was lucky per the preferances of the roaches.

I will say it again, if you think your vivs have young roaches in them, they can be collected and trapped with rich food and heat. Non theoretically I have had to address this; with cherished long term 'work pets'.

Could not use chemical means and didnt need to.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'm not worried that the vivariums have the roaches in them. We haven't seen any evidence of them anywhere near the frog room. I also think the frogs would harass anything in their vivariums quite a lot.
 

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Oh thats good. In the thickest era of the red runner invasion a very sensitive, intelligent arboreal agamid was disturbed nocturnally by the invasion of red runners in her openly constructed environment, that was composed of many sweet, moist inlets and underneaths.

They also gravitated to the spaces underneath glass vivs.

It took a good 2 years to conquer - with live insect food in juxtaposition to circumstances - complicating approach.
 

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Oh thats good. In the thickest era of the red runner invasion a very sensitive, intelligent arboreal agamid was disturbed nocturnally by the invasion of red runners in her openly constructed environment, that was composed of many sweet, moist inlets and underneaths.

They also gravitated to the spaces underneath glass vivs.

It took a good 2 years to conquer - with live insect food in juxtaposition to circumstances - complicating approach.
I see the american roach under the cover of my beehives sometimes and they generally stay outside. I did reading the first time I saw this because I never expected to find roaches in the woods randomly. On a rare occasion if it rains I might catch one inside but they have never caused an infestation living in the woods. From my understanding these are very different than the ones that plagued me when I was a kid living in NYC and really cause infestations. The american roach actually prefers to be outside from my understanding. I may see 1 to 2 a year after extreme weather patterns.

I personally would only worry if they are using something where they say you need to leave the house for a period of time like an aerosol bomb time product. I wouldn't even worry if it was a product Ortho perimeter spray that shoots more of a stream. If they say it's not safe for people to be around I would say it's not safe for frogs. If you seal the tank up with plastic wrap and remove frogs I can't see that not being safe enough.

Crazy idea. If you see springtails and isopods still alive after the treatment you know it will be safe for the frogs to move back in. :)
 

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The dreaded household roaches... Found in our kitchen by my bug-phobic wife. (She BARELY tolerates the fruit flies for the frogs)
Can relate to that, mine doesn't like it either. Still, roaches can be dealt with traps, baits and foggers as described here. Same can be told about those pesky ants, they annoy me every time I visit California.
 
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