[Binzer]

Hi Friends,

I recently joined because I have been finding myself taking in a lot of rescued amphibians recently. Pretty much all of them up to this point have been Pacs (there is a local breeder and a lot of them get dumped at vets and animal control).

Up until now, I only had one other type of frog come through, a dart frog that I rehomed almost immediately because of my lack of knowledge and then promptly joined here in hopes of expanding my knowledge before it happened again... well here I am only 14 days later with an hourglass frog.

I have been unable to find much husbandry information online beyond basic care sheets. Do any of you have experience with these frogs and would be willing to let me pick your brain on some more detailed questions beyond a basic care sheet? This one is in rough shape and I want to make sure I am doing right by him.

 

[Kmc]

They used to be called Clown Tree Frogs by the trade. They were pretty when "fresh" inexpensive and small. An unfortunate combination sometimes for a frog. They are similiar to reed frogs in husbandry.

They need to be able to get warm easily, mid 70s low 80s and get cooler without trouble. A quick rehab tank would be a 5 gal w a 4 to 7 watt uth on one side wall and a potted plant next to the wall with the pad. Moist paper towel on floor to visualize stool. A flan sized dish for water and an opaque crock, like a conure cup for the crickets near the plant and some slanted light branches, or cork, malayan stick. . Keep it simple and easy to duplicate but have it segwayed ie in-relation to cohesively. If hes stressed or sick he needs to access his resources without undo effort or 'risk' from his vulnerable perspective.

The above is like a halfway house if he is able to move properly. Theres other stuff too but..

In order to help more we need more information about the individual frog. And pics.

since you are rescuing on a regular basis do you have an ongoing relationship with an exotics practice in your area to support with critical cases?

 

[Binzer]

They used to be called Clown Tree Frogs by the trade. They were pretty when "fresh" inexpensive and small. An unfortunate combination sometimes for a frog. They are similiar to reed frogs in husbandry.

They need to be able to get warm easily, mid 70s low 80s and get cooler without trouble. A quick rehab tank would be a 5 gal w a 4 to 7 watt uth on one side wall and a potted plant next to the wall with the pad. Moist paper towel on floor to visualize stool. A flan sized dish for water and an opaque crock, like a conure cup for the crickets near the plant and some slanted light branches, or cork, malayan stick. . Keep it simple and easy to duplicate but have it segwayed ie in-relation to cohesively. If hes stressed or sick he needs to access his resources without undo effort or 'risk' from his vulnerable perspective.

The above is like a halfway house if he is able to move properly. Theres other stuff too but..

In order to help more we need more information about the individual frog. And pics.

since you are rescuing on a regular basis do you have an ongoing relationship with an exotics practice in your area to support with critical cases?

Thank you for startup details. Its similar to what I have set up, but there are several improvements I need to make.
I will get some pictures tomorrow, I am trying not to disturb in the the night hours.

I wasn't really rescuing on a regular basis until recently when a lot of frogs started getting dumped around the county. I suspect there is a new breeder that might not be telling new owners the level of care involved because most that are abandoned are by teens and young adults. The vet I work at is an exotic vet, but specializes in avian exotics and not herps. He has reached out to other practices around to see what other vets have familiarity. Since I am in a remote location, I fear that driving them more than an hour drive might stress them too much (I would love to hear adivce on travel if anyone has it). In the meantime my vet has started brushing up on amphibians and is planning on taking some additional training whenever they start doing professional conferences again.

We are still able to screen for parasites and bone density and some other minor issues at the practive. There is less familiarity with fungal and skin infections, impactions etc.

I do have some questions about airflow. I am seeing in care sheets they need airflow. I am trying to grasp how much. In order to keep the cage up to temps and humidity, I have about 1/3 of the mesh top covered. I am still in the low range but I fear that too little airflow would cause fungal or bacterial issues in his stressed state.

Feeding- Right now I am (trying) to feed tiny crickets and hydei (I could have misspelled that- I am new to these as feeders). I have never fed anything from a cup before, this is a huge struggle. Even with dusting, and cooling those fruit flies, they are EVERYWHERE. I mean its a damn comedy. They are everywhere in my house now. Do you have advice on how to manage this? They just climb right out of the top. Also are there any other potential feeder insects? Even if not a staple, I would love to have other things to offer (or that dont end up all over my house).

I know I am going to have more questions in a day or two and I will try and get you more detailed set up photos.

Thank you for the help.

 

[Kmc]

Hey there ah yes i saw you were in that position - a mixed blessing. Definately more of a gift.

The struggle to maintain an RH reading i will appeal to to you to relax.

Restricting principles to achieve others in the vivarium is a canonized quandary.

As long as there is a water pool easy to keep clean and ergonomically compatable with the way subject encounters water and its proven out by seeing him seat easy and depart easy - and you mist the interior of the environment in am and nightfall, with a few puffs through the day, he will be good says substantial replicated outcomes.

If the frog is an adult he should be able to eat 2 to 3 week crickets, about 1 cm. You dont need to use hydei.

In a permanent environment a uvb tube zoomed 5% corresponding with the warm zone cover makes them last longer than in situations that didnt have it. Repeated outcomes led me to this conclusion. It can be applied in a 5 gal foot print. This is where the other conformations of the bulbs can come in handy. Altho " not as good" they have proven out to have measurable uvb and are workable in compact or small radius desired circumstances You have good instincts follow them.

I didnt want to mention the ceratophrys breeder in our first exchange to derail focus but i wish something could be done to stop him. He doesnt give a damn about those animals. Its just free money to him.

 

[Kmc]

There is much contention surrounding the complex topic of uvb. Mostly focusing on oral d3 and conversion per "not being needed" but it activates neural pathways that i think stimulates the immune system. Especially for animals in certain parts of the world. Its use should be balanced with abundant cover and positional exposure gradients.

 

[Kmc]

A pad of fishflake dough in the feeding cup will keep the crickets nourished and help occupy them. Crickets are very food centric, young ones esp so. Items like carrots, potato etc are close to useless in comparison to the appeal of a moist, protein based 'bait". Just keep it fresh. You can make some fishflake dough pellets ahead of time and store them in the freezer. They will thaw quickly just put them in the cup. This will expedite a small task that can mean alot of collective minutes and that can be really helpful when one has a day full of more critical care tasks to attend.

 

[Socratic Monologue]

it activates neural pathways that i think stimulates the immune system

There is a mountain of research indicating beyond any doubt that UVB and UVA exposure suppresses immune reactions both locally and systemically in a range of animal taxa; searching "+immune +modulation +uvb" at Google Scholar yields 28,000 hits. UV exposure, even at low dosages, is used medically to suppress immune response (I've used it medically for a good part of my life, though not lately given the range of safe and effective targeted drugs available).

The relatively small pool of data linking UV exposure to some selective improvement in immune status (as in coronavirus) has by nearly all studies been linked to Vitamin D levels (Western humans are quite Vit D deficient, but this, as in all non-herbivores, is easily corrected by oral supplements).

 

[Binzer]

There is much contention surrounding the complex topic of uvb. Mostly focusing on oral d3 and conversion per "not being needed" but it activates neural pathways that i think stimulates the immune system. Especially for animals in certain parts of the world. Its use should be balanced with abundant cover and positional exposure gradients.

UVB was going to be my next question, so I appreciate you addressing it early. Like pacman frogs, there seems to be a lot of misinformation online about UVB and how it is more than likely not necessary. I only recently discovered that UVB recommendations for my Pacs were terrible and I have been slowly upgrading lights over the past few months. The change in their behavior, feeding, and coloration has been noticeable.
You mentioned 5% so I am assuming this little guy would also be in the same Ferguson zone as a Pac? Also with proper UVB would I still want to dust feeders? With such a tiny frog, I worry about toxicity.

Thank you for all the help so far. I appreciate you taking so much time.

 

[Kmc]

I only know that my outcomes in using it the way i did were replicated through hundreds of individuals over an engaged period of decades and were especially noted in wild caught animals. These outcomes were noted by respectable others.

No, i dont think its an "immunity tonic" or anything like some coronovirus claims.

I think it is an evolved somatic "expectation" and another element of native influences . To put it as briefly in stunted form as i know what i have experienced with my own always developing modalities. Maybe it was something else i did. But im not arguing.

 

[Kmc]

To go on and describe for one readily accessed per my memory - ambassadorial display frogs i will not name species, that were kept under uvb tubes for a robust 8 years before rehoming, not dying, but rehoming for another project that my employer desired as an example feels fruitless and nonproductive. Why would i want to do it? I have no bone in the fight. Nothing to prove. And dont wish for any trouble.

 

[Kmc]

Perhaps it seems inconsequential to most, but my observations of basking behaviors has been one of the comparatives that has influenced my use of uvb lighting.

I think we agree on many broad strokes concerning uvb, which include its deleterious effects. I caveat any haphazard application as responsibly as i can without totally censoring my experiences which have not been what most expect who have never used it at all.