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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For christmas this year my uncle gave me one of his inferalanis that should have the albino gene. Im really excited for when it gets older to because my uncle said he would give me another one for a breeding pair once i know the sex of the one i have now.
 

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Hey that is great. It is always nice to get free frogs.

Off this topic kind of, is the gene for albinism desireable for tincs? I have 2 patricia's that are 50% het for albinism. I was just curious if that makes them more desirable in the trade.

Ed Parker
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i think it depends on who you ask. there are people i think that would want them. they are not as shunned down upon like cross bred morphs thats for sure.

I was just curious if that makes them more desirable in the trade.
 

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well, some folks like myself are really just into albinism in general. frogs, snakes, etc etc...

I think it's cool and would be psyched to own albino dendros, but a lot of people wouldn't. if you like them, then that's awesome for you! ;-)
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
In my opinion, conscious selective breeding for abnormal traits is a potentially dangerous thing for the dart frog hobby. Getting pure albino strains is how a lot of this leopard gecko, corn snake, and ball python nightmare started.
And does anybody remember what a wild type leopard gecko looks like??? I certainly do... and they would likely be unrecognizable to many keepers of the species.

If we begin actively breeding our frogs with albinism as a goal, where do we stop? What is to stop people from producing Creamsicle tinctorius, or salmon auratus? These examples seem probable that they could be the next step beyond creating albino strains. At that point then, what happens to the wild type darts? It is very likely that we will not be able to get wild caught specimens of a number of frogs in captivity ever again. Therefore, we should do as little tinkering as possible for abnormal traits. Yes, I am aware that there is always some sort of subconscious level of selective breeding.. ie for larger more robust specimens, for better feeders etc etc... but the least we can do as *responsible* froggers is to limit selective breeding as much as possible on a conscious level.

I keep my darts for one of the same reasons as Brent Brock mentioned in another thread, and that is that we celebrate in our frogs what nature has given rise to rather than what market pressure and greed has produced. If by chance my frogs were to produce albinos, I would not attempt to start an albino line. Instead, they would be an interesting treat that would simply be bred back with wild-type frogs. This way, our frogs will keep their "natural" appearance, but keep some of that beautiful genetic diversity, and show up as a rare treat for another frogger a few generations down the road. I remember another frogger mentioned this idea on frognet a while back, and I think this is the responsible route to take in an event of an albino popping up.

And let's not forget, albinism is generally the result the expression of a recessive allele rather an "albino gene."

I dread the idea that dart frogs may go the way of the ball pythons, corn snakes, and leopard geckos. I pray that the day of creamsicle dart frogs never dawns.

The corn snake mentality truly scares me.
 

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I don't think I fear albinos being circulated in the trade. The "normal" colors that most of our frogs possess are far more aestetically pleasing to the eye for most hobbyists than mostly pink/white frogs. I don't forsee froggers creating breeding projects like that of corn snake breeders, fortunately. Honestly, I'm not really impressed with the albino darts that I've seen so far. Although I think an albino auratus is an exeption and is a very pretty frog, I still prefer a normal-colored pattern.
 

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Albino Darts

I can't imagine that albino frogs would ever be more than an interesting curiosity. As Randy stated the normal color morph are so much more attractive, the little pinkish Vent has been around for years and I have never had a desire for one nor has the demand for that frog ever been overwhelming. I think as long as the passion for this hobby stays so high we won't have to worry to much about the direction it takes.
Mark
 

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I can speak up about the wild type leopard gecko looking nothing like what most people think. I have an early generation male who doesn't show much variation from the WCs which I have as my "wild type". I love posing him with my designer animals and pointing out what a difference there is. I've had people point to "normal" leos and say thats what they look like, even tho "normals" at this point are just the mish mash of genes and morphs bred together. I had my male in with two "normal" females (probibly top of the line designers in their day since each was over a decade old) and the difference was obvious. I'd hate to see this with morphs and species of dart frogs.

When people in this hobby want something new, instead of designers they just get another species or morph, I think this may be one of the main reasons the hobby has managed to not follow the reptile hobby down into the albino/designer idea, and may be able to continue like that, with very little hype over designers as a whole.

Albinos in this hobby, which selectively bred for (this pair is het. albino, or 50% het, etc with the intent of getting albino offspring, and obviously albino x albino) is looked down on just as much as hybridizing morphs and species.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
To me I dont care what skin color the frogs are, they should be treated equal. If i found a brown frog and a red frog, id take the healthier one(brown) . I've allways wandered why ppl(some people) dont like albino, event they dont like the color..... off subject, but i was interested in the topic. :)
-Paul
 

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Double J said:
Yes, I am aware that there is always some sort of subconscious level of selective breeding.. ie for larger more robust specimens, for better feeders etc etc... but the least we can do as *responsible* froggers is to limit selective breeding as much as possible on a conscious level.

Well for the larger robust animals, that seems actually more closer to how it happens in nature, as the smaller and weaker animals are always less likely to make it to maturity, and if they do they may not find a mate in time. Although I know very little of darts in nature, I do know that the healthier and stronger animals are more likely to breed then the weaker of the animals. So I say your point about selective breeding is very valid despite the fact people try to breed the healthier of thier stock.

Ryan
 
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