[suztor]

Has anyone ever attempted to build one in to their viv?

I'm going to start experamenting with it as soon as I find a small one way valve.

sent from my incredible...mind

 

[suztor]

Not sure, its something I want to play with. And want to get some insightful input.

Although its crossed my mind to use a pump (although that would defeat the purpose of pumpless) at intervals to add or remove water. Or some kind of valve. I'm not sure what the options are, just an idea

Could also be just a manual changing of containers depending on how long it runs.

sent from my incredible...mind

 

[suztor]

I appoligize, I'm not implying your comment lacked insight

sent from my incredible...mind

 

[suztor]

If no one does by tonight I'll be happy to. I'm at work so I can't. You could also Google it, its also known as hero's fountain

sent from my incredible...mind

 

[suztor]

I've actually brainstormed a modification to this. No idea if it will work as of yet but roughly combines the two hidden containers into one and uses carbonated water or seltzer tab to start the process then it could be switched out. But since I'm a designer and do not really understand liquid, gas & pressure dynamics this could just be a harebrained idea.

I'm going to run it by my bf first to see if I'm not missing something totally essential

sent from my incredible...mind

 

[suztor]

It's totally flawed. Nevermind. Ahhh wishful thinking...

 

[suztor]

Cool, I'll look into that ram thing.

I'll also post a picture of my plan.

I could be wrong(lol probably am) but if I could solve the issue with the stupid one way valve it might have worked if I could keep the pressure consistant.

On a different note I'm curious if I had a box that I could switch or replace or flip a directional valve on. It'd be a self contained system with little input. I need to rig up a mock of herons fountain and play with it.

I know that perpetual motion is supposed to be impossible.

Like I said before I'm no scientist, to any measure. But honestly I love to chase projects like this, I have this silly feeling I'll stumble on to something great because I didn't know science said no .



sent from my incredible...mind

 

[suztor]

Here is my earlier idea
Maybe I should just write scifi

In my perfect world the pressure would be constant and the one way valve would allow water down with no air escaping
sent from my incredible...mind

 

[suztor]

Hey thanks for the break down, you didn't come across wrong I realized several of those problems when I deemed it not doable with those specifications. One of my concerns was infact the water soluability of the C02 gas.

Lol and my bf said the same thing "if you solve that, we are retired!"

I'll keep playing with this, I'm just trying to avoid using something that could be a heat source, that's what started all of this nonsense.

Oh and in the drawings it not really to scale, but I invisioned the delivery tube to be like an air line and the drain be a bit bigger.

I do see a flaw in the opening on the bottom. The pressure created by the column of water on the right (due to its weight via gravity) will push against the force you are trying to create downward by the air chamber. A 1-way valve (called a "check valve") would reduce the blowback pressure significantly.

Another problem is that the water "entry" (at the top, on the right) is higher than the water "exit" at the left. This means you need more energy to pump the water that way (which is why you are suggesting some way to increase the air pressure in the lower left chamber). It is important to note that there is a distinct physical difference in your setup as opposed to the Heron's fountain setup. Heron's fountain uses 2 separate water containers, with the 2nd already raised so that it has the higher potential energy required <--It is also important to note that this increase in height is a source of energy for the system that does not exist in your setup

My knowledge of chemistry is lacking, but if you plan to use a compound to increase the pressure you will need to make sure it is not water soluble. Also, just how much pressure does this create? (In other words, how much seltzer/whatever will you need and how much will that cost, in comparison to the savings of not having a pump/electricity)

There are a flurry of other problems here, but I will stop there. I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way but perhaps you should look at some introductory physics texts before you spend too much time on your design. This is possible using an energy source other than a pump...but...a perpetual motion machine *IS* impossible. (What you are suggesting is NOT a perpetual motion machine because your source of seltzer/whatever would eventually run out)

Keeping the pressure constant will require a constant source of energy....as you are pumping water up the tube and "out" the top, you are releasing pressure from the system that needs to be reintroduced somehow otherwise the system will simply come to equilibrium.
Also, if the air pressure inside is strong enough to pump the entire column of water, then when water is "falling" from the left side and the check valve opens, it is likely that the air pressure will simply keep the water from falling into the container at all.

EDIT: You will ALWAYS need some other energy source...if you can solve that one, forget the fountain you got yourself a nobel prize in physics.... it comes down to whether any of these alternate energy sources are cheaper than the pump, which I don't believe they are.

sent from my incredible...mind