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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everone, im new to the boards and dendro's so i could use some help here

I want to set up a vivarium, maybe something like a 40 gal. and have a colony of approx. 6 frogs. From reading aroud i know you all reccomend starting out with a 10, but im confident that if i do reseach, ill be able to pull it off (i have a 75 gal. reef tank which is tricky and have also had red eyes).

I went to a reptile show this past sunday and a breeder there went through some good "community species" with me and gave me the adress of this message board saying it was very good. i dont remember what species they were, so if you have suggestions for anything like that it would be appreciated. also i understand a false bottom is used to create an area of water for a pond/waterfall (atleast thats the impression ive gotten so far) can someone give me a quick rundown on what they are?

Are there any other animals i can keep with the darts? i was thinking maybe a small school of neon tetras in the pond of something of that nature.

any good sites or books you guys know of would also be greatly appreciated


thank in advance
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Welcome to the boards! A 40 gallon should be fine. I'm not sure on what you mean by "community species". Do you mean you want to keep several species in the vivarium? If so I stromngly caution you against doing so as darts are not like fish and do not do so well in communities...it's just asking for alot of potential problems. These problems could include domination of omne species over another which results in feeding issues (severe problem with darts), hybridization within the genus and stress factors bewteen species.. I, personally have mixed P. aurotaenia and D. azureus in a 30 gallon at one time but that was only due to space constraints...I knew the risks but was not so concerned with hybrids as they are 2 different genus'.
With that said, if you want to keep a colony of darts in the 40 gallon, then D. galactonotus would be a great choice...they are of a good size (around 1.5" - 2" ) and seem to do great in equal sex ratios. Hope this helps!

-Bill J.
 
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Discussion Starter #3
i meant that i was hoping to keep several different kinds of darts. After doing some more reading though it seems this isn't a very good idea.

thanks for the help
 

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There are many species of darts that do well in groups. If you check this link, the frogs listed on the right are good group species:

http://www.saurian.net/htm/mnu_frogspecies.htm

Terribillis are also great group frogs.

People have successfully kept tincorius and azureus in groups, but be prepared for some fighting once they reach adulthood. In these frogs, the females are the ones that fight over the males as well as good laying spots. They wrestle and push each other, and sometimes one of the females will get pinned to the ground. If you have a deep water feature, this could be a real problem. Darts are not aquatic frogs, and they CAN drown.

Since you're a beginner, stay away from pumilio and thumbnails.

Look around the saurian.net site. There's a lot of good info. Also check the links page here.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
thanks for all your help

When you say the do well in groups, do you mean groups of the same species? or i can mix and match this frogs in the same enclosure?

one last thing. Can someone explain to me the the function of a false bottom. I've been reading a lot about how to make them but, does anyone know a sight that has photos along with explanations?
 

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Tuscani,

I'm guessing you might have been told that D. auratus and D. leucomelas are good community frogs (do well in groups)--and they are. The other frogs that were mentioned do well in groups, too. Tinc females usually get a little aggressive when older, but I have 1 female and 4 males in a 60 gallon that have done well for about a year and a half now.

A false bottom simply keeps your substrate mix from being waterlogged. If you want to see some pics of a false bottom being put together, I have some pics at http://www.frognet.org/gallery/False-Bo ... l-Assembly . There are other sites around, as well. Does anybody have URL's for those?

All the best,
 

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Tuscani609 said:
thanks for all your help

When you say the do well in groups, do you mean groups of the same species? or i can mix and match this frogs in the same enclosure?

one last thing. Can someone explain to me the the function of a false bottom. I've been reading a lot about how to make them but, does anyone know a sight that has photos along with explanations?
Yes, I mean a large group of the same species. Mixing frog speices (or even different morphs inside a species) is very much frowned upon, since many of the frogs we work with can hybridize. The offspring of such matings are usually termed mutts. You can mix them if you don't plan on breeding and throw away all the resulting eggs, but most people don't want to do that. There are frogs that won't hybridize that can be kept together, but save that until you have more experience.

A false bottom is to provide a drainage layer, mainly for the plants. Most plants don't like being in soil that's constantly wet. An area under the substrate provides a spot for the water to drain to. The same effect can be achieved with gravel or LECA pellets (Hydroton).
 
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Discussion Starter #8
thanks a lot everyone.

and as for the frogs that don't do well in groups, does this mean you just can not keep multiple females together, or does this mean you much keep only a single frog?
 

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You are correct--"frogs that don't do well in groups"simply means that two or more females should not be placed together (as a general rule). For the most part, you can keep several male tincs/azureus together with 1 female without problems--or at least that has been my experience.

The problem is that you generally buy froglets that are not yet sexable . . . so you may have multiple females without knowing it. Of course, you could then trade off adult females for other frogs or other males of the same species, or just set up another tank to separate out any extra female you may have.

All the best,

Homer
 
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