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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am not the happiest with the silicone method, considering the fact that it easily rubs off. There's plenty of patchy areas that were never covered, allowing plenty of yellow to show through from the Great Stuff.

Obviously, silicone is cheaper. The problem I had with silicone was once it got coated with peat, it refused to stick to anything else. I couldn't mix it with water like weldbond. Since I'm redoing my DIY cage, I would like to add a more permanent background, err, one that won't rub off, something a bit harder, stiffer. There is a water feature, and according to Justin, Gorilla glue is waterproof. Once again though, the frogs are more important, no way I'm sticking Kole my tinc or my tricolors in it (or try it on my firebellies or mantellas either) unless I know this stuff will not cause problems. Justin, got any updates on your frogs?

The ratio is 1:1 water and peat, correcto mundo?
 

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What I did for the vert ten I have my breeders in is used elmer's pro-bond (basicly the same as gorrila glue) to glue the cork to the back wall, let it cure, filled the gaps with great stuff, let it cure, brushed the exposed foam with the probond (undiluted), sprinkled on dry coco fiber, pressed it it, then sprayed it lightly with water (the glue needs a little moisture to cure properly). Then I let the tank dry till it was bone dry, then I planted it.
The tank is misted twice a day, and has been set up since july or august, and has shown no signs of deterioration. The imitators have been in there since a month after it was planted, and are real healthy and breeding.
I'm not a fan of working with silicone at all!
The probond works well for every step I mentioned, and I haven't tried siliconing dry powder to foam, but just for the fact that the glue is poly-urethane, and the foam is poly-urethane, I can't see where silicone could work better. One could argue that the glue can't seal the foam the way silicone will, but I belive that the foam is weather proof enough, at least if it is not submerged.
Just my $0.02
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
about it expanding (losing contour), if applied to liberally in corners (I only used the flexible curing great stuff), could it potentially crack the glass? Will I need to drill it (since this stuff is tough!) if I wish to wire epiphytes to the background?


Personally, I would like to mix it, mostly because I feel like it will be harder to "rub it off" if I ever had to clean/ sterilize, etc. the cage at any time. This is a big problem, especially when I have to sterilize the cage with the mantellas in it, the coco on the silicone will most likely get rubbed off when I scub it. I guess this means that Gorilla glue/ probond is safe underwater, if it hasn't deteriorated. I would like to have a water feature.

What may I ask, is weld bond composed of?

Sorry if you have posted this a long time ago, can you tell me which post your vent tank pic is in (if you did)?

Thanks guys. Someday, when my friend comes over again (and I get my mind straight), I will show some pics of my own little creations, hahaha.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
honestly I don't know how it rehydrated, considering this stuff is waterproof. Sometimes I wonder if weldbond or gorilla glue rehydrate because of the PEAT mix into it. In other words, the peat eventually swells with water, expands, and breaks the bonds with the glue so it comes off.

What is weldbond actually composed of anyway?
 
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"rubs off"

Im still trying to wrap my head around the rubbing off part. Why would you be scrubbing the background? Am i not doing something?

Once my background was planted i never touched it again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
it will definitely rub off when I have to sterilize the tank. Get soap and water, and scrub the sides. I'm going to have to do that because I'm moving my mantellas in another tank which would be better suited for their needs, down in the basement where it will get cooler this winter so I can cycle them for breeding.
 
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I don't think thats going to sterilize the tank. Really if your going to switch out occupants in a tank and want to be sterile take out the whole background. Tear it out and scrape the glass. Then start over. Otherwise I'd just move the tank downstairs. If you really want to keep the tank, use it for offspring of the original occupants. Honestly I think if you scrub the backround any coco fibre will come off regardless of what glue you used. I'd also be a little nervous using soap(or any cleaner) on a pourous material that you would keep in their witht he frogs

-Tad
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm getting so discouraged with all these other techniques, I'm just going to order from http://www.jamestowndistributors.com and buy a gallon of epoxy resin and a quart of hardener. When I apply that, that'll most likely kill anything (and maybe melt it!) on the great stuff anyway.
 

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Personally, If you know you are going to have to sterilize the tank, I wouldn't bother with spending time or money on a nice background. If you know you have a infected animal, put them in a quarantine tank or sweater box, treat it, then put it (or them, as the case may be) in a real nice tank. An upside to doing it this way is that while the animals are in quarantine, you can take you're time with the tank.

I don't know about epoxy, but fiberglass resin will melt the great stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
the mantellas were quarantined for three months, had a fecal examination, and given panacur. They are very healthy, and getting ready to breed btw.

I sure feel like an idiot. I shouldn't have rushed, but my mantellas were out growing their quarantine tank. (they were all tiny youngsters). I should of moved my mantellas somewhere else, so I wouldn't have to worry about this problem. However, I hate the background and tank layout anyway, and will tear it down and put something better in. I never added my water feature, and I didn't want to mess with the tank after I had frogs in it. Lol, good excuse to spend more money on frog tanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Once I order my epoxy, I should be working on the mantella cage I originally was going to use. Therefore, they can move right in after it establishes and has offgassed all possible traces. Then, I can rework my DIY tank. Once the DIY tank is torn down, I will add my bright kit I got from AHS supply, as it lacks a nice hood. My tinctorius will definitely get it, and possibly my tricolors, unless I decide to buy a tree frog for the other side! (its really two cages in one that share a light fixture).

Considering people are having success (those it hasn't rehydrated on) with polyurethane, anybody used that polyurethane adhesive, sold with the GE silicone 2 caulking? I think its by DAP. Could be a cheaper alternative than Gorilla glue, didn't have time to look at Home Depot the other day to see if it contained any mildicide, etc.
 

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Gorilla glue is a type of polyurethane adhesive. As someone else said earlier, Elmers makes Pro-Bond, another brand of polyurethane adhesive similar to Gorilla Glue, but about half the price. I use it for woodworking, and have found it to work identically to Gorilla Glue. I can't comment on using it in frog tanks, as I have never tried.

If you are looking for a cheaper source for epoxy resin, you might want to try http://www.jgreer.com . I don't know the prices from Jamestown Products, but these guys are the cheapest I have found.

Good luck,

Homer

Rain_Frog said:
Once I order my epoxy, I should be working on the mantella cage I originally was going to use. Therefore, they can move right in after it establishes and has offgassed all possible traces. Then, I can rework my DIY tank. Once the DIY tank is torn down, I will add my bright kit I got from AHS supply, as it lacks a nice hood. My tinctorius will definitely get it, and possibly my tricolors, unless I decide to buy a tree frog for the other side! (its really two cages in one that share a light fixture).

Considering people are having success (those it hasn't rehydrated on) with polyurethane, anybody used that polyurethane adhesive, sold with the GE silicone 2 caulking? I think its by DAP. Could be a cheaper alternative than Gorilla glue, didn't have time to look at Home Depot the other day to see if it contained any mildicide, etc.
 

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Rain_Frog said:
Obviously, silicone is cheaper. The problem I had with silicone was once it got coated with peat, it refused to stick to anything else. I couldn't mix it with water like weldbond. Since I'm redoing my DIY cage, I would like to add a more permanent background, err, one that won't rub off, something a bit harder, stiffer. There is a water feature, and according to Justin, Gorilla glue is waterproof. Once again though, the frogs are more important, no way I'm sticking Kole my tinc or my tricolors in it (or try it on my firebellies or mantellas either) unless I know this stuff will not cause problems. Justin, got any updates on your frogs?

The ratio is 1:1 water and peat, correcto mundo?
Hello- sorry so late here

I have used gorilla glue on three vivariums already and all three have held up well- just as well as weldbond. The frogs are doing great in them and have been setup in them since June (?) = roughly 6 months. I have had no problems with it crumbling, cracking, or rubbing off.

Correct- I used a 1.1 ratio of peat to water. I tried smearing the glue on the foam (when dried of course) and then placed the peat/water mix onto that. I would try and make the peat/water mix more like a paste consistency and not too watery- also don't put on thick layers. I allowed the tank to stand upright to drain excess water and let it dry for a few days to a week. Fans help a lot.

I also tried mixing the glue with the water and then adding peat to that, but that was just a mess as the glue does not mix well with the water.

Good luck and post some photos!

Justin
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
the real question is, do you have any water features running over the glue and coco fiber? And, what really is weldbond anyway?
 

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I do not have any water features running over them... yet. I am eager to test this out myself and am unsure of how well it will hold up. It is waterproof as far as I know (er, read..lol).

Do you mean what is weldbond in comparison to gorilla glue? In terms of chemical composition?

Justin
 

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I can only speak for weldbond, and have not used gorilla glue, but thought I had read on frognet awhile back that there were reasons not to use it. On the other hand I have also heard of weldbond rehydrating, though I have not had the problem.

Here is what how I was told to use weldbond from someone who said they had it in over 30 tanks.

1 part weldbond to 2-3 parts water, then when that is mixed, mix in coco bedding until it is just starting to get lumpy. then cake that on the background until it is in a nice thin layer. It can take up to 2 weeks to fully dry in some cases.

Hope that helps, I will also offer to anyone looking to try this that if you are looking for a quicker method go with corkbark or coco panels, as the silicone will dry much faster to hold those on. I have just used my first coco panels and I will say that with my future 10gal verts I am sticking with them over the weldbond just for easy of use.
 

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I believe Weldbond is an acrylic polymer that uses water as the solvent. This being the reason that it rehydrates when submerged.

Gorrilla Glue/ProBond are moisture cure polyurethanes (just like Great Stuff). Water catalizes the reaction that results in the glue curing. This reaction only works in one direction, so the glue will not dissolve in water. Gorrilla Glue lacks any sort of UV sheilding, so it will disscolor and become brittle over time when exposed to light. My first hood was assmbled with Gorrilla Glue, and over the three years it was in service the portions of exposed glue disscolor and become brittle. These areas were also within just a few inches of the lights.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
damn, I was going to use gorilla glue too for my hood. Obviously, i'm gonna either now use silicone or screws. I would think silicone would get brittle too.

Huh. If it is polyurethane, I would think that the "rehydrating" comes more from the peat, if one mixes it in. Over time, if it does get brittle, it must get weak and then the bond breaks down, allowing the stuff to come off in a big mess.

All I can say is I can try it. I'm sure with peat ontop of it, it will not be as exposed to light, and last much longer.

BTW, I'm still going to order from Jamestown distributors this week for some epoxy resin. I'll use it on my clawed frog tank first.
 
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