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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have 3 frogs that I bought as "Peru Vents" they are beautiful little frogs with blue/black legs and a complete "y" on the back, the yellow is more of a coppery yellow than normal yellow vents. They look almost identical to frogs I have seen on frognet galleries called Golden amazonicus. I am wondering if anyone knows definitive ways to tell the difference between "y" vents, peru vents, golden amazonicus if there is a difference at all.
Thanks
Chris
 

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Price!!!


charrison said:
I have 3 frogs that I bought as "Peru Vents" they are beautiful little frogs with blue/black legs and a complete "y" on the back, the yellow is more of a coppery yellow than normal yellow vents. They look almost identical to frogs I have seen on frognet galleries called Golden amazonicus. I am wondering if anyone knows definitive ways to tell the difference between "y" vents, peru vents, golden amazonicus if there is a difference at all.
Thanks
Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Melissa,
Is that it? There are people who claim to have both "y" vents and golden/yellow amazonicus. How are these differentiated between? What should the prices be for these guys if they are infact all the same frog, and what should I put on there tank label? They are very definetly different from "normal" yellow vents.

Anyone else have any of these frogs?
Chris
 
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We really need a good pic to take a guess. I have vents that are adults and have remained coppery, and I have seen vents with the full "Y." It will be just a guess too, since people still disagree on a lot of these "morphs."

charrison said:
Melissa,
Is that it? There are people who claim to have both "y" vents and golden/yellow amazonicus. How are these differentiated between? What should the prices be for these guys if they are infact all the same frog, and what should I put on there tank label? They are very definetly different from "normal" yellow vents.

Anyone else have any of these frogs?
Chris
 

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Standard Vents are different then Peruvian Vents, but I am not too sure about the Peruvians compared to the Golden/Yellow Amazonicus. The same problem exists with Red Vents and Red Amazonicus, but I have been told they are different from a couple veteran froggers... so I trust them. I think there needs to be a lot of work done in clearing all this up, but don't really know where to start? I geuss it would help to know the locality of the animals, but thats pretty much impossible for a lot of the frogs already in captivity.
 

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A well known breeder has a morph of peruvian vents with blue legs, the term peruvian vents is used to distinguish between that and the regular vents.

A morph of gold amazonicus is on frognet gallery. This morph has a slightly different "Y" pattern compare to the regular vent.

Red Ventrimaculatus have black dots on their throats.

Red Amazonicus have black stripes on their throats.

I heard vents are found on the west coast... Peru etc. Amazonicus are found on the east coast... mainly Brazil. Most likely the name is derived from the location: Amazon river/delta.

SB
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah, they should be peruvian vents.
I'm just not real clear on what the difference is. I guess its the Bio major in me wanting a clear definition of the difference between the two. Maybe that definition does not exist, if anyone knows of one I'd really like to know what it is. I see small differences between my frogs and ones called gold amazonicus, but nothing that seems like it couldn't just be individual variation.
Chris
 

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Chuck Powell used to have some "orange vents." His were wildcaught frogs. He sold f1s to a few different people including Tor and Patrick. Patrick has been selling them as "peruvian vents" and people who got them from him tend to sell them as peruvian vents as well. Price is not always an accurate way to tell. I have seen these frogs for sale for as little as $65 each (they were from people who bought them from Patrick.)

Tor recently decided that these frogs were amazonicus. There is a picture of a golden amazonicus throat pattern in Shulte's book, it matches the pattern of my frogs. Blue legs/yellow stripes are not an accurate way to tell the difference between these frogs, Todd produces a line of vents that have very blue legs. The throat pattern in golden amazonicus is very well defined and does not "bleed" into the blue belly pattern. The throat pattern is a bright yellow/gold. Also, the Golden amazonicus often do not have a nose spot, out of a group of six 3 had nose spots, vents seem to always have nose spots.

The "golden amazonicus" in the hobby are also one of the few frogs with locality data. They are from "rio tigre" in peru.

Vents are also found in peru, you can read Schulte's "updates" page, he talks about this there. http://www.geocities.com/inibico/updates.html

After looking at your picture I do think that your frogs are "golden amazonicus" but, there have been multiple people who crossed a TK vent with an amazonicus. These hybrids have been floating around, I saw a group on frognet last spring, unless yours are these frogs, they are amazonicus. I would find out where yours are from, if you can trace them back to Chuck, Tor or Patrick they are amazonicus. Your frogs are not a standard vent.

Alexander

Also, we only have one morph of Golden amazonicus in the hobby. The species "amazonicus" is not really recognised by most people in Germnay, so it may not really matter. Another thing is that I can not find one scientist that actually uses D. intermedius, Schulte is the person who seems to always split these frogs, but even he uses D. imitator intermedius, the hobby seems to have made this up. Does anyone know what is up with that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks Alexander, Very Helpful.

I actually just talked with Patrick (my frogs are 1 generation away from his). He said the same as Alexander, that Peruvian Vents and Golden Amazonicus are the same frog. So I guess I have golden amazonicus, who knew? Now if I can just find some reds.
Thanks for everyones imputs, if there are any other comments I would certainly still be interested in hearing them.
Chris
 

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Aha... I didn't know they all coming from Mr. Powell. Alexander, where did you find the locality for these golden amazonicus?

There are red amazonicus that look rather goldish, which can be called golden too. That is the reason I use the term a morph of golden amazonicus.

SB
 

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Golden/yellow amazonicus

I have an email from Chuck Powell. In it he states the original group of golden/yellow amazonicus were brought in from Peru by a friend of his. Following that, he was able to produce approx. a hundred or so offspring from a wc trio. Sadly, this group was lost after a few years. He also stated that an image of a wc parent could be seen in Fauna, v. 1, no. 1, page 8 (1997) and Reptiles v. 6, no. 8, page 13 (1998). I am looking to purchase these issues if anyone can help me out. The group of frogs in the frognet gallery are offspring from Tor Linbo's group, who bred f1 offspring from Chuck Powell's wc group. The leg coloration is a poor indicator of amazonicus/vent. I have offspring that show a beautiful gold/orange coloration on the legs instead of the blue or grayish color usually seen. This color variation occurs within the same clutch. There is also some dorsal pattern variation as well. Most all the frogs I have posses the same framework of pattern, but a few have a section of line missing here or there. Also, in regards to the throat patterns mentioned previously. The amazonicus pattern is almost rectangular, whereas the vent pattern is scalloped as if bordered by spots. Tor was kind enough to give the throat pattern tip, as well as the Rio Tigre locality information.

Hope this helps,
John Rillamas
 

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Golden/yellow amazonicus

I have an email from Chuck Powell. In it he states the original group of golden/yellow amazonicus were brought in from Peru by a friend of his. Following that, he was able to produce approx. a hundred or so offspring from a wc trio. Sadly, this group was lost after a few years. He also stated that an image of a wc parent could be seen in Fauna, v. 1, no. 1, page 8 (1997) and Reptiles v. 6, no. 8, page 13 (1998). I am looking to purchase these issues if anyone can help me out. The group of frogs in the frognet gallery are offspring from Tor Linbo's group, who bred f1 offspring from Chuck Powell's wc group. The leg coloration is a poor indicator of amazonicus/vent. I have offspring that show a beautiful gold/orange coloration on the legs instead of the blue or grayish color usually seen. This color variation occurs within the same clutch. There is also some dorsal pattern variation as well. Most all the frogs I have posses the same framework of pattern, but a few have a section of line missing here or there. Also, in regards to the throat patterns mentioned previously. The amazonicus pattern is almost rectangular, whereas the vent pattern is scalloped as if bordered by spots. Tor was kind enough to give the throat pattern tip, as well as the Rio Tigre locality information.

Hope this helps,
John Rillamas
 

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These are two different frog species that just happen to look very similiar. For a while I thought that there was no difference between Y back vents and amazonicus, but at a recent discussion with Tor Linbo, and actually seeing a true golden Amazonicus the results are actually apparent. First off the Vent has a spotted throat while the Ama has a rectangle or hour glass shape on the throat. Second the call is different than a standard vent. Third the body shape of an amazonicus is closer to an imitators than a vent. This has also been proven by genetics. It is important to keep the two seperate as best as possible.


Danny
 

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When I was in Peru I snapped this pic of what I was told was D. amazonicus... Picture was scanned from slides, that's why the quality isn't the greatest.



This frog was fotographed about 150km north of Iquitos in virgin forest at ground level broms.
 
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