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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just wanted to post some pictures of my Fine Spot Bastimentos groups. This is a shootoff of Mark's thread - http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/67493-red-frog-beach-bastis.html

I don't have any exact locality information for these frogs. The original frogs were imported by Seaside Reptiles in 2004, and purchased by a former New England frogger who recently moved to warmer confines ;). I acquired a group of three F1 juvies produced by him back in '06. They quickly became my favorite frogs - and still even with a large collection of pumilio - are still my favorites. My F1 trio are a good breeding group - and have produced a sizable number of froglets for me over the past few years. The pattern on the frogs is very regular - with large numbers of small spots that sometimes almost from a reticulated patter in some frogs. The frogs are generally a deep orange to red depending on the individual - although the WC frogs are a paler orange. I don't supplement with color enhancers much beyond the supplements included in the Repashy Calcium plus ICB and occasional Naturose.

I am a very strong supporter of the fact that you can't visually ID the locality of pumilio. These frogs came in during the 2004 bastimentos imports - and that is what they are. Unfortunately, there aren't too many remaining 2004 Bastis that I can locate to try and enhance the bloodline. But if anyone has any - please let me know. But, there are features of the produced frogs that is reminiscent of Bastis from Red Frog Beach.

Now for the pictures (the color is a little less bright than they appear in person - but I didn't want to do any manipulation of any of the photos beyond cropping):

2004 WC Male

2004 WC Female


F1 Male

F1 Female 1

F1 Female 2


F2 Juvies (current offspring)







Prior F2 offspring produced






 

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Beautiful frogs Oz......Those are some cute frogs.....Bastimentos are one of my favs.
 

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Hi Oz,

Based on your photos, does it seem to you that the progeny are becoming MORE spotted from F1s to F2s? Given the small population that you're working with, could there be some sort of "drift" toward the highly spotted frogs?

I have an F1 male from the 2009 SNDF imports and it looks very similar to yours in terms of color tone and very white feet, but is not nearly as spotted as yours. Could they be part of the natural variation that you might see at a single locale?

Take care, Richard.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Richard - It does appear that way in the photos - but what I forgot to mention is that the frogs come out of the water more spotted - and then the spotting changes as they age, with the spots becoming larger and fewer in total.

But - there certainly does seem to be a trend for increased spotting even with the above being said.

I don't want it to come across that I am selecting for spots either. That is what the frogs are producing. I only acquired the WC pair in the past 8 months or so, and have split up the F1 group to now include an F1 male and female and the WC female - and placed the WC male with an F1 female to see if the offspring they produce remain the same traits.

I am still trying to see if I can get my hands on another pair of frogs from the same import that I was able to locate a couple of years ago.

Hi Oz,

Based on your photos, does it seem to you that the progeny are becoming MORE spotted from F1s to F2s? Given the small population that you're working with, could there be some sort of "drift" toward the highly spotted frogs?

I have an F1 male from the 2009 SNDF imports and it looks very similar to yours in terms of color tone and very white feet, but is not nearly as spotted as yours. Could they be part of the natural variation that you might see at a single locale?

Take care, Richard.
 

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Given the diasterous way the O. pumilio seems to be imported into the U.S. (throw all the wc frogs in a box in Panama, then try to put together like-frogs when they reach the importers), we really need to create a separate mini-TMP for each importation (and from each importer). I'm sure there is a better way to collect and manage dendrobatids, but (as the hobby exists today), it seems like a hopeless morass!

Take care, Richard.

Richard - It does appear that way in the photos - but what I forgot to mention is that the frogs come out of the water more spotted - and then the spotting changes as they age, with the spots becoming larger and fewer in total.

But - there certainly does seem to be a trend for increased spotting even with the above being said.

I don't want it to come across that I am selecting for spots either. That is what the frogs are producing. I only acquired the WC pair in the past 8 months or so, and have split up the F1 group to now include an F1 male and female and the WC female - and placed the WC male with an F1 female to see if the offspring they produce remain the same traits.

I am still trying to see if I can get my hands on another pair of frogs from the same import that I was able to locate a couple of years ago.
 

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Given the diasterous way the O. pumilio seems to be imported into the U.S. (throw all the wc frogs in a box in Panama, then try to put together like-frogs when they reach the importers), we really need to create a separate mini-TMP for each importation (and from each importer). I'm sure there is a better way to collect and manage dendrobatids, but (as the hobby exists today), it seems like a hopeless morass!

Take care, Richard.
What you mention is one of the main reasons that I have not gotten into pumilio, especially bastis. Wish things were clearer or that everyone had the same story. Frustrating really.
 

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Oz seeing the WC adults, they are certainly indicative of RFB, the future generations threw me off. In 2004 the access to RFB was easy and collectors certainly did not go any further than they had to which is why the were collected early on. Later property development severly limited access to them. These frogs will certinaly change color in captivity, I would suggest there is an extrememly high probability that these are RFB.
 

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Oz,

Here are some shots of fine spots from around 2000, I'd have to dig back and check on exactly when they came in.

first shot is a lone female, the other two shots are separate pairs.

thanks
Eric
 

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