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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm considering getting some farm raised pumilio, but I'm really suspicious of it. I'm willing to take some precautionary measure (Dr. Frye) if I could get any advice for what I should be most concerned with. I've heard horror stories of WC ones.

Any suggestions?
 
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Unless you can afford a complete loss, without a blink, I agree. Although, calculated risk can lead to reward, but the numbers are still very high in that equation.
 

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All I will say in public is that the prices are out of line, and I will not be buying any.

kenya_1977 said:
I'm considering getting some farm raised pumilio, but I'm really suspicious of it. I'm willing to take some precautionary measure (Dr. Frye) if I could get any advice for what I should be most concerned with. I've heard horror stories of WC ones.

Any suggestions?
 

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For species unavailable (pretty much) in the hobby... the prices are not the issue.

You should see the prices for the really rare frogs.

The issue here is who you're dealing with and the health of the frogs.

Neither of which impresses me (the dealer for sure, the health who knows...).

If I *am* going to spend that much (on a frog), it will be for a much "surer" thing (healthwise) than this.

s
kyle1745 said:
All I will say in public is that the prices are out of line, and I will not be buying any.
 

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In the past I have heard that they were priced from $25-50 each with expected 50% or higher die off. What makes these worth so much more?

Scott said:
For species unavailable (pretty much) in the hobby... the prices are not the issue.

You should see the prices for the really rare frogs.

The issue here is who you're dealing with and the health of the frogs.

Neither of which impresses me (the dealer for sure, the health who knows...).

If I *am* going to spend that much (on a frog), it will be for a much "surer" thing (healthwise) than this.

s
kyle1745 said:
All I will say in public is that the prices are out of line, and I will not be buying any.
 

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2 things.

1 - the morphs are not "common" in the hobby.

2 - when they were $25/50 (in the *distant* past), they were brought in in much greater numbers (and much poorer quality).

Do not mistake me on this... I think very few people should consider this. Mainly those that have medicine(s) at their disposal, and those that have also have someone who can run immediate fecals.

"Farm Raised" or not... they're coming in from the wild and will more than likely be loaded with parasites.

Hopefully the frogs will be packed with much more consideration than those frogs you were talking about ($25/50) were.

s
kyle1745 said:
In the past I have heard that they were priced from $25-50 each with expected 50% or higher die off. What makes these worth so much more?
 
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I'm not sure if the 50% die off stat is reliable for application today. My humble theory is that many frogs died because people couldn't grow food, make sufficient enclosures, get fecals, or go on dendroboard to ask questions :) For example: if you read Jewels of the RF, it says that vents are difficult to raise due to the fact that small enough food is not easily accessible. This hobby has become extremely advanced in the last couple years. Many of us have revived some really sick frogs. On that note, I'm not about to spend a grand on a few really sick frogs!
 
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Well I have little experience with many wild caughts however I own a pair of Bronze auratus(WC) from the first shipment from Panama 2 years ago. They are doing great have bred for me and overall been the healthiest frogs i've had. I can imagine that they may need attention from their long journey. So I would be interested in possibly wasting some intestment on these. Who is doing the import. I haven't seen an offering yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
pumilio crash?

You guys pretty much confirmed what I already figured. Although at cheaper prices it might be worth the risk, I expect a certain amount of loss, and at almost CB prices it's not worth it. I've also been the benefactor of a great pair of farm raised auratus, but the auratus are a very resilient set of frog (which I've encountered people who have lost them). I would love to get into pumilio/thumbnails hardcore, I was suspecting that this was a risky way given that the prices are 3-4X higher than past.
 
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medical advice

Kenya, due to the advice of some board members I no longer give out free medical advice on Dendroboard. I am sorry for the inconvenience, but you can always contact me at my hospital.
 

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Found this on Frognet... Tracey, if you view here I hope you dont mind that I moved it over here to share with all.

" I've been doing a little research on these D. pumilio that are coming in
to the US soon. They appear to be the group of "farm raised" frogs from
Central America (not Schulte's) that have been shopped around for
sometime now to raise the market price.

The story I got from Florida is that they are being shipped from Central
America to Indonesia and then back to Florida. They will be around the
world travelers with one heck of a case of jet lag and a terrible
survival rate.

While I'd love to get some D. pumilio, these will not be worth the risk
or the inflated price. Just think about all the small frogs that came in
from Europe a couple of years ago and basically none survived.

I hope some more responsible importation comes along."

Tracy
http://www.TracyHicks.com

Im staying away from these for this reason and some others.
 

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Tim - a follow up (on FrogNet) to that note suggests that only the (initial) money for the purchase came from Indonesia. The frogs do not seem to be making the round trip.

But - par for the course here. Murky information all the way around.

s
 

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Yes. Thanks. I saw that after I posted and that makes me feel a little better about the frogs survival rate. Still dont like the prices and have other issues as well.
 

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about the prices, rare frogs get high prices.
about prices again, i saw on frognet a bit back. i think blue jean pumilio for 250.00 cb. this guy is selling 125.00 for the "blue legged" frogs. which i admit is high but just having my say.
think of this. the mysteriosis how much will they go for. it is only a matter of time that they will be on the market. and they come from euro land. i heard that histos could of fetched around 300. to the seasoned frog breeder the prices are not too high. like someone posted it woud be an expensive experiment and i am sure that he will sell a few.
walt
 

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I think there is a bit of a difference in price when you are looking at Wild Caught. Take a look back to 2 years ago when the big shipments of auratus were coming in from Panama. How often do you see sold black auratus for sale? Not very often. When this shipment came I remember only paying $40 an adult frog and I hand picked a pair. I was newer to dart frogs then and later lost these frogs but the price was a little less than adult auratus go for. The thing to keep in mind is this guy is out for the buck and so are the folks collecting these "farmed raised" pumilios. He has already been caught stealing the pictures that were in his ad from Thomas at pumilio.com. I will admit that I am interested in obtaining a few of these WC but I will be having them treated ASAP. This is a calculated risk and I am not sure if I am willing to take such a risk and a chance to loss a lot of money. I do not think this is a wise venture to those who are new to the hobby. WC stress very quickly and these will have parasites. There are still very many unknowns about these frogs yet. (Quality of transportation, amount shipped to gather, amount of time without food, etc.)

Later and Happy Frogging,
Jason Juchems
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
pumilio prices

I know these guys are not easy to come by, but if you are patient it happens. I'd be more than willing to pay $250 on a blue jean that was gauranteed CB, vs this $125 for a farm raised individual that could be stressed out beyond any preventative treatment by the time I get them. I love these frogs, and have been biding my time to get more.. I think I'll do it the safer route and wait on the lists (and pick up stuff at the IAD shows). I personally don't have over $2000 to drop on frogs that may or may not make it, which you reduce those possible losses almost completely when you buy from a reputable breeder.

I've seen a lot of stuff that Seaside has put up for sale, and they deal with volume imported animals. I know people that have gotten lots of their auratus with no survivors. They are about moving the animals, not releasing healthy ones.

Again, thanks everyone for confirming what I already knew. Hopefully these animals do come in healthy, but I don't have the money to gamble on it.
 

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Having been to IAD this year, there were little more than a handful of pumilios availible, I would be really surprised if there were 6 in total for sale. For some of us in this hobby this is the only chance to purchase these frogs. I know the risks involved in purchasing farm raised animals, but waiting on year long lists, and almost begging for any frogs produced is not for me ( I have called or emailed almost every person who has pumilios ). I have already consulted Dr. Frye as he was a great help in getting my Patricia back to health and will have a full medical supply. I know I will most likely loose frogs and accept this.

Robert Marchisi
 
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pa.walt said:
about the prices, rare frogs get high prices.
about prices again, i saw on frognet a bit back. i think blue jean pumilio for 250.00 cb. this guy is selling 125.00 for the "blue legged" frogs. which i admit is high but just having my say.
think of this. the mysteriosis how much will they go for. it is only a matter of time that they will be on the market. and they come from euro land. i heard that histos could of fetched around 300. to the seasoned frog breeder the prices are not too high. like someone posted it woud be an expensive experiment and i am sure that he will sell a few.
walt
I'll believe the mysteriosis thing when it happens..personally I don't see it happening any time soon. Also the last batch of histos was sealing for around $450 and this was not more then a year or so ago
Brian Ferriera Jr
Plympton, Ma
 
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