Ethics/Legality of Owning Tomato Frogs
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My wife works at Petsmart. She has a coworker that is a frog enthusiast. She bought the frog from another local shop. I have not seen the frog in person. My wife saw it, maybe I will google image search all ssp of tomato frog for her to attempt to identify it. All my thanks! If they are not legal to sell here, I intended to make the shop aware, in a respectful, private manner.
A side note issue I would like to highlight/seek an opinion on is the regulatory practices concerning pet shops. Are these stores EVER auditted unannounced, or are they simply free to operate as long as no one has the background/intelligence to recognize a potential illegal species on the sale rack?
All my thanks again!
JBear
I fully admit that I may be biased but I *HATE* pet stores with a passion. Corporations are legally obligated to care about nothing but profits....they don't care about humans and they damn sure don't care about animals...and the animal laws are a joke.
IMHO, if you have evidence of petsmart or any other major chain doing something illegal, I would take it directly to the cops/DA and not be "nice" about it. By letting them slide on it at your local store, it will not put any pressure on the company to change their policies. If its a small mom/pop store, different story...but I can't COUNT the number of petsmart/petcos I have walked through where I could easily spot all sorts of husbandry errors....
I can't comment on the "unannounced audits" but as a general rule, even with complaints, without evidence, they are pretty much free to practice..... the laws surrounding these (at the state+federal level) are a joke; lobbyists control them and its quite obvious (for example, certain humane treatment laws do not apply to lab mice and other lab animals...)
IMHO, if you have evidence of petsmart or any other major chain doing something illegal, I would take it directly to the cops/DA and not be "nice" about it. By letting them slide on it at your local store, it will not put any pressure on the company to change their policies. If its a small mom/pop store, different story...but I can't COUNT the number of petsmart/petcos I have walked through where I could easily spot all sorts of husbandry errors....
I can't comment on the "unannounced audits" but as a general rule, even with complaints, without evidence, they are pretty much free to practice..... the laws surrounding these (at the state+federal level) are a joke; lobbyists control them and its quite obvious (for example, certain humane treatment laws do not apply to lab mice and other lab animals...)
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The "chain" that is selling these is "Pet Supplies Plus". I agree with you almost entirely. The part I disagree with is going straight to authorities. Perhaps the store manager struck a deal with someone not knowing the legality(or even having the insight to question it) of propogating this species? Maybe they were CB examples, and the seller was very good at misdirection? These are some examples of why I would approach them with a degree of humility. If the owner does not care/does not want to hear, then, perhaps, a call is in order...
JBear
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tomato frogs have been consistently available for a long long time. Large chains only acquire animals from distributors large enough to supply multiple locations, not individual breeders. Guarantee that these are legal. Dont make yourself out a fool by rushing to the authorities to tattle on someone selling a perfectly legal frog
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theyre selling legal tomato frogs. Dyscophus antongilii are the only tomato frogs that are illegal in the pet trade.
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That's what I figured. I always see Tomato frogs for sale
I think you misunderstood my post. Its a waste of everyone's time if you are merely running to the cops everytime you think someone might have done something illegal....but if you have actual evidence that these are illegal frogs, I would still go to the authorities on any big chain.
I agree on giving the owner of a small mom+pop store the benefit of the doubt and letting them correct things, but when it comes to a big chain I don't have any pity. Huge chains have no excuse for making such mistakes imho.
It sounds like they are probably legal, but good to be aware nonetheless.
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you dont seem to understand me. Big chains, due to the nature of their animal source, are FAR LESS LIKELY to be selling anything illegal than are mom and pop shops. For example, youd never see asian arowanas in a big chain fish shop, but I know a fish store in Seattle that used to have them on several occasions. Because big chains have to rely on wholesalers to supply multiple locations, and those wholesalers records fall under scrutiny, they nearly ALWAYS abide by the rules.
Working backwards.. there is actually a lot of debate on whether or not
Dyscophus antongilii is actually a species in it's own right or it may simply be a color variation of D. guineti... See for example the discussion here http://www.evolutionsbiologie.uni-k...dule/@random44d9801f2f829/1155104845_P203.pdf
Ed
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D. antongilii are perfectly legal if they (or parent stock) were imported legally prior to the CITES I classification. There are a few people working with this species now and when/if they offer them, totally legal. If they cross international lines, they'll need CITES I permits with are not given for commercial trade. That is only if they cross international boundaries.
The local cops and DA are highly unlikely to act on a claim of illegal sale of exotic pets since they 1) don't have jurisdiction (if anything it would require USF&W to investigate), 2) would have a poor understanding of the legalities required.
Hmm.. based on your comments, I get the impression that you either don't understand the legalities around lab animals or are going off accusations popular in some animal rights circuits. There are significant barriers to "inhumane" treatment of lab animals that are policed on multiple levels starting with IACUC committees.. Even though rodents of the genus Mus are excluded from enforcement under the USDA's animal welfare act, they end up with significant protection under the required IACUC committee's regulations.....
see for example Welcome To IACUC
Some comments,
Ed
Actually there is considerable controversy about thier legalities.. since in the mid to late 1980s and early 1990s, a number of institutions sent thier frogs to a researcher at a California University for breeding (since at that time all reproduction of D. antongilii was via hormonal injection) with the goal to send out and form a sustainable population of the frogs. The researcher bred the frogs and then sold breeding pairs and froglets to the hobby while claiming on paperwork that those frogs were deceased. The froglets showing up in the pet trade sparked an investigation resulting in arrest of the researcher and recovery of as many animals as possible. So there is a significant chance that anyone in the USA with D. antongilii has "tainted frogs" which if sold across state borders (or exported) could result in a Lacy Act investigation.
Ed
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When was this??
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