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Discussion Starter #1
Which of the thumbs are egg feeders? Also, of these, are there any that are also suitable for housing in groups?

Thanks,
Dow
 

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Which of the thumbs are egg feeders? Also, of these, are there any that are also suitable for housing in groups?

Thanks,
Dow
Imitators will feed their tads but don't seem to do well in groups. (Females will eat each other's eggs). Vanzolini, too, will egg feed. I keep a 1.2.1 group of UE vanzolini and they do quite well. GaryD, here on dendroboard, is the only person I know currently selling 100% legal origin vanzolini from UE.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks! Are all of the Vanzolini spotted? To be honest, I really like the pics I've seen of the imitators more than Vanzolini. I especially like the looks of the striped ones, and I like the amazonica as well.

What about r. variabilis?
 

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Thanks! Are all of the Vanzolini spotted? To be honest, I really like the pics I've seen of the imitators more than Vanzolini. I especially like the looks of the striped ones, and I like the amazonica as well.

What about r. variabilis?
I don't know of any other group of egg feeders other than the imitator group and pumilio. I have never seen vanzolini that weren't spotted nor have I heard of other imitator that do well in groups.
 

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Facultative egg feeding thumbs:

imitator
vanzolinii
flavovittata
sirensis

Non-facultative thumbs:

variabilis
amazonica (old ventrimaculata)
reticulata
summersi
benedicta
fantastica
uakarii
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Facultative egg feeding thumbs:

imitator
vanzolinii
flavovittata
sirensis

Non-facultative thumbs:

variabilis
amazonica (old ventrimaculata)
reticulata
summersi
benedicta
fantastica
uakarii
Thanks Spaff, and thanks for expanding my vocabulary as well. :D If I understand the definition of facultative correctly, the first four may feed eggs, but don't have too. Does that mean that the second group, the non-facultative list will or must feed eggs?
 

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No, obligate egg feeders (Oophaga) must feed eggs. Facultative egg feeders may, but tads can also be raised by other means. Non-facultative will not lay feeder eggs at all, so they must obtain food in some other way.
 

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no. Only the first group will egg feed. Facultative means they can, but don't have to. They can also be raised on conventional foods for Dendrobatid tadpoles. non-facultative means they must be raised on artificial diets when in captivity.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
no. Only the first group will egg feed. Facultative means they can, but don't have to. They can also be raised on conventional foods for Dendrobatid tadpoles. non-facultative means they must be raised on artificial diets when in captivity.
Ah, my mistake. I read too much into the term non-facultative. I took it to mean that if facultative meant that they may or can, then non-facultative meant must, rather than can't or won't. Apparently it isn't time yet for me to be inferring one meaning from another. Maybe after more coffee. :) Thanks for the clarification.

So for our uses:

  • Obligate = must
  • Non-Obligate = Facultative = can or may
  • Non-Facultative = cannot

Is this reasonably close to the mark?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Okay, now a follow-up question. Can any of the facultative egg feeders be kept in groups? My impression (although I've read differing opinions on this) is that the imatators can't. Is this correct? What about the other species? If it matters, my vivarium, when done will be a 20H Vert.

Also, are all of the egg feeders more arboreal than terrestrial? or visa versa, or a mix?

Thanks again!
 

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Yes, I keep Ranitomeya vanzolini in a 1.2.1 group but, in my opinion, a 20 vert is too small to provide for more than a pair. Yes, I can and has been done and, to varying degrees of success but, and again, imo, it just isn't enough room. Once you add a false bottom, substrate, hardscape, and decorations, you will be effectively reducicing your 20 gallon tank to, maybe 15 gallons or less. I would recommend something upwards of 35 gallons, the approximate size of an 18x18x24 zoomed or exoterra.

Edit: in my experience, both Ranitomeya imitator (yes they should be kept in pairs) and R. vanzolini will use every available space of the viv, being equally arboreal and terrestrial. Keep in mind, though, most of our vivs are far from anything a self respecting arboreal species would consider as such. Literally, arboreal transtlates to tree dweller. :)

Okay, now a follow-up question. Can any of the facultative eIngg feeders be kept in groups? My impression (although I've read differing opinions on this) is that the imatators can't. Is this correct? What about the other species? If it matters, my vivarium, when done will be a 20H Vert.

Also, are all of the egg feeders more arboreal than terrestrial? or visa versa, or a mix?

Thanks again!
 
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Success has been had with imitators in equal-sex groups with multiple egg and tad deposition sites, but you must be aware of potential aggression and be prepared to pull when necessary. It depends mainly on individual frogs in my experience. If you don't a lot of frog experience, I don't recommend keeping imitators in more than a pair. Vanzos, lamasi (sirensis), and flavovittata all seem to do ok in groups. I'd say lamasi is the best of the three in a group setting.

Okay, now a follow-up question. Can any of the facultative egg feeders be kept in groups? My impression (although I've read differing opinions on this) is that the imatators can't. Is this correct? What about the other species? If it matters, my vivarium, when done will be a 20H Vert.

Also, are all of the egg feeders more arboreal than terrestrial? or visa versa, or a mix?

Thanks again!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for all of the help, guys. One question that I've seen over and over when newbies like myself are starting to build a vivarium and are looking for help, is "What frogs are you planning to put in there?" Because of this I figured that I'd be better off deciding this question before actually doing any work on the viv.

So, after this thread and some others and LOTS that I've read, I've decided the following:
  • As much as I like the idea of groups, I almost certainly don't have a big enough tank for one, so I'll stick with a pair.
  • Egg feeders interest me from the standpoint of watching them (assuming that they'll let me), and the idea of frogs rearing their own young is cool.

So I guess, based on this, I'll be going with a pair of imitators, maybe Varadaro. Something with blue legs and orange or yellow markings, anyway. My wife likes those colors, lol.

Thanks a million, guys!
 
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