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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I remember seeing pics of Ed's tinc x azureus cross and tinc auratus cross frogs back around 2004-2005 timeframe.
As froglets they looked rather plain. Does Ed or anyone else have adult pics of these frogs? Curious what changes occured
 

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Scott,
I never had these frogs in my possession.. They were deliberately bred by a zookeeper who was trying to pad out her resume for successful reproductions... Needless to say it wasn't the positive she hoped it would be.

The frogs in the pictures are adults Ed K

Some comments

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Tracy gave you credit for them way back when. Like I said originally Buddy, they were plain looking. I have seen many crossbred frogs, and I have only seen one that I thought was a good looking frog. People are curious because they think that one cool colored frog + another cool colored frog will equal a really cool colored frog. It doesn't work that way. The colors are muted and dull. I asked now because I wanted to see if there was a change and it was on my mind because of another cross I saw recently. I thought it was just a real close shot of juveniles from the angle and the deli cup. An Azureus or a tinc are far better looking than the frog in the picture.
 

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Do cross breeds occur in nature???
I'm sure they do to a small extent.
I do believe that the recent White Banded Fants are a product of this occuring.
(Although it is suspected to be human fault unintentionally)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Where locales neighbor each other, yes. This is obvious in tincs and pumilio. Look at a distribution map of tincs in brazil. and compare 3 neighboring morphs. You can usually see the east and west morphs in the center locale morph. I will give you an example in a bit using pumilio from del toro
 

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Cossing morphs is definetly a no-no also, but not an example of crossbreeding. Crossbreeding is the breeding of two distinct, though usually closely related species. Although heavily frowned upon, (and for good reason) breeding a Blue jeans Pumilio to a Rio Terribe Pumilio would not result in a crossbreed, simply a Mutt of a Pumilio. Now, because auratus, Tinctorius and Leucomelas are all closely related, they can interbreed. The offspring are usually sterile, and these are definetly crossbreeds. I've seen Leuc x auratus, Tinc x auratus and Tinc auratus and Leuc c tinc. Although I wouldnt say any were ugly, none were attractive.
 

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If offspring of tincXaur or leuc are usually sterile, I wonder if offspring of crossing ranitomeya, for example imitator VaraderoXFantastica or BenedictaxChazuta, they are also sterile. I personally deplore crossbreeding.
 

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Where locales neighbor each other, yes. This is obvious in tincs and pumilio. Look at a distribution map of tincs in brazil. and compare 3 neighboring morphs. You can usually see the east and west morphs in the center locale morph. I will give you an example in a bit using pumilio from del toro
Isn't that how some morphs naturally occured?
 

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Ok I think I got it. So if I took an alanis and a inferalanis and breed them that would be fine. Just like reginas and giant orange. I'm just trying to understand better.
Thanks

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Ok I think I got it. So if I took an alanis and a inferalanis and breed them that would be fine. Just like reginas and giant orange. I'm just trying to understand better.
Thanks

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If you want to track back to exactly where the original imports came from (good luck) and then find factual (not theoretical) information that proves that the two populations coexist and breed in the wild... then sure, go ahead.

It is irresponsible to take a general approach of "well they come from a similar area so it shouldn't be a problem if I breed them, right?" There could be geographic factors that limit the interactions of the two morphs that are not apparent from google earth.

Best rule of thumb is: Unless you have a legitimate source that can verify the two morphs commingle and breed together in the wild, don't do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
This is about to turn ugly I just remembered seeing the frogs years ago and wondered if there were any other pictures. The frogs were quite plain in the pictures I had seen. The only good looking cross I ever saw was an auratus green frog with cobalt pattern on its back in black.

I think you already know the answer to that question. No, it is not alright because people want to keep the locale populations seperate. And keep the blood lines pure. I respect that.

Now, as to my personal opinion, I believe we are going to experience huge problems in the future because of inbreeding. In the mid 1980's I traded a bunch of retf for a couple of dyeing poison dart frogs. That's what they were, all of them. Different patterns from different areas, but all of them just dyeing poison dart frogs. By the mid 1990s, people were heavy into seperating into morphs. And it is a shunnable offence today to not keep seperate.

Here is the problem I forsee. Some of the tinc morphs are from one small local area. No matter which line you have, they are offspring of that one tiny local area. Therefore, they are all the same bloodline regardless of who you bought them from. period. Your male from Patrick and your female from SNDF are still related. Inbreeding generation after generation will eventually lead to problems.
With tincs there is some times a case where the frogs on one side of a ridge are one morph, the top of the ridge is another morph and the frogs in the valley on the other side are the third morph. Study a distribution map of tincs and see just how close locales truly are. In the del torro region of panama, pumilio populations are even closer to each other.
Would breeding neighboring tinc morphs produce a genetically superior frog by introducing a seperate blood line? I think maybe so.

And on a side note, I don't know of anyone that has tried breeding crossbred frogs to acheive a third generation enough to prove they are sterile. I have no desire to try, but I believe that tincs and auratus are closely related enough to obtain fertile offspring. but don't feel it should be done. It wouldn't occur in nature.
 

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I was just after a better understanding of it all. Didn't want to start any problems

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