E. anthonyii "Highland"

6328 Views 23 Replies 9 Participants Last post by skylsdale, Apr 12, 2012

MELLOWROO421

Discussion Starter · Jan 8, 2012

Anyone out there having much success breeding the highland anthonyii? If so, care to share some tips? I have a trio, looks to be 1.2. They have bred for me successfully on a few separate occasions, and I have morphed a total of 5 froglets but they never seem to make it past about 2 months old. Most of the tads seem to die off after they have their back legs but just before or immediately after popping the fronts. The ones who do make it are very small, but their colors begin to show in only a week or 2. I have tried to raise them by keeping 1 or 2 in a 190 oz. container heavily seeded and fed just a couple of flies per day. I am currently down to just 1 froglet at the moment. It is about 3 weeks old and looks good, but they have all started out this way. I have not searched for eggs recently since I have not heard much calling and the tank is way overgrown. They have laid all the clutches I have found on a leaf of either a begonia or a bromeliad. I can't remember seeing these frogs in the classifieds, other than from Sean S., which leads me to believe I am not the only one having difficulty with them.
Any advice or info?

Thanks in advance,

Brian

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skylsdale

· #2 · Jan 8, 2012

What temperatures are you keeping them at, Brian?

I also wonder if this is a frog that might suffer from a really restricted gene pool: from what I understand, all the frogs of this type are from a single importation by Black Jungle a number of years ago...and then any frogs Sean Stewart might have brought in since then (although I can't be sure of this--it's possible his frogs are from Black Jungle. Someone would need to confirm).

Are they older frogs? If so, dusting with some pure Vit A might help the females build up enough reserves to lay some solid clutches. Corpus Callosum (Mike K) had some luck doing that with a really old E. tricolor female a couple years ago. You might talk with him.

fieldnstream

· #3 · Jan 8, 2012

Hey Brian,
I don't have any experience with "Highland" but to echo what Ron said, Vit A may help. My "SI" were producing consistently bad clutches, within a few weeks of beginning Vit A supplementation I got my first good clutch. As time has gone on the clutches keep improving (from 3 good eggs at first to 17 now). I know your issue is with froglets...but MAYBE it will help.
Wishing you the Best Luck!
-Field

cbreon

· #4 · Jan 8, 2012

skylsdale said:
What temperatures are you keeping them at, Brian?

I also wonder if this is a frog that might suffer from a really restricted gene pool: from what I understand, all the frogs of this type are from a single importation by Black Jungle a number of years ago...and then any frogs Sean Stewart might have brought in since then (although I can't be sure of this--it's possible his frogs are from Black Jungle. Someone would need to confirm).

Are they older frogs? If so, dusting with some pure Vit A might help the females build up enough reserves to lay some solid clutches. Corpus Callosum (Mike K) had some luck doing that with a really old E. tricolor female a couple years ago. You might talk with him.

I believe Sean did bring in some new EU bloodlines within the last year b/c I was considering getting some, the e.tricolor 'highland' are some of my all time favs...

I used to keep several different e.tricolor but right now all I am keeping are pumilio and my frogs have been responding really well to the repashy vitamin a plus. I have been getting bigger and more frequent clutches, lower mortality rate for froglets, better colors...I would encourage you to get a bag and give it a try, you can get a small bag that will last you several months for ~7.99. I dusted 3-4 times the first month and then cut it back to 2x/month because it is possible for the frogs to get too much.

MELLOWROO421

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 9, 2012

The temps in their tank rarely gets over 76. I got them from Sean in July of 2010 and they were about 1/2-2/3 grown. I use 2 forms of vit A 2-3 times a month and use repashy as part of my vitamin rotation including repcal and herptivite as well as dendrocare. I am using the repashy vit A and solaray human grade pure vit A.
I may try using only the repashy and vit A twice a month with these guys to see if it changes anything.

Anyone else working with them? I have 2 local friends working with them but they aren't getting good clutches at all. A couple bad clutches, but nothing past the egg stage.

gigiols

· #6 · Jan 9, 2012

I have a group of four E.anthonyi "Highland" or like spanish use to say "Tierra Alta". I have bred them many times but the firsts clutches was unsuccessfull, by the way at the 5th time the tadpoles have grown up normally. For rising them i used the same method that i do with normal locality of E.anthonyi, i put them divided in many little boxes with the quantity of water as a glass, usually i put 3 tadpoles within each box, i prefer to fill it with water taken by an acquarium with many plants as Elodea densa or similiar pond plants, the temperatures should me approximately at 25 celsius degrees and two less in the night. I feed the tadpoles with two different kinds of food, the first is basically carnivorous composed by mosquitoes larvae also known as Chironomus, the second one is a mix between Spirulina algae, fish dust for fry and integrators as calcium plus d3 and also Vitamins. Apart for the first tadpoles, i have never seen froglets with spindly legs but i can confirm that some of my adult E.anthonyi are always thin and look like healthless. It's an amazing Locality but it gives some problem in more than normal one.

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MELLOWROO421

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 9, 2012

Great pics and info. Maybe my issue is the tad food, not the parental supplementation. Not even my first frogs that morphed showed any signs of SLS, so hopefully that means the parents are healthy and ready to breed. They just seem to be extremely delicate froglets/tadpoles. I have been using a mixture of chlorella, spirulina, terra flake with color enhancers, terra micro crabs with cyclopeeze, tadpole bites and just recently mixed in some omega brand fish flake.

ggazonas

· #8 · Jan 10, 2012

I have a groupthat I beleive is a 2.2...was a 3.2 but not usre what happened to the fifth frog. All but one of the males is from the newer importation that sean s. brought in.

Since april of last year till around june they were breeding consistently and i ended up with 4 tads in the water of which they all morphed. one morphed in the viv and I pulled the other 3. 1 froglet lasted over month before perishing while the other two didn't make it more than a few weeks. The one in the viv has yet to be seen.

After a bit of a break they have laid a new clutch. It appears that 7 out of the 12 eggs laid will hatch. I've noticed they have a better chance of developing when the weather is cooler. The temps in the room I keep them in range from 64-70 during the day and 58-64 at night.

The last group of tads that were in the tank survived off of indian almond leaves, ff's and the occasionaly tad bits.

I am going to pull the last clucth and try and raise them myself.

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cbreon

· #9 · Jan 10, 2012

It seems the guy from Italy may be onto something too with feeding mosquito larvae. This would be pretty difficult during the Winter months but during the warmer months of the year, setting a ten gal or so outside filling it with water and maybe some aquatic plants to help balance water quality, o2 levels seems like it would be a way to collect larvae and other insect nymphs that young tads would eat. Infact, I know some people use rainwater for their tads including Sean (at least he used to, 8-10 years ago) and I wonder if that water unknowingly had larvae in it which helped tads prosper...thoughts???

cbreon

· #10 · Jan 10, 2012

White Mosquito Larvae - Cubes - 3.5 oz. - Frozen | Frozen Aquarium Food | Fish Food | Aquarium - ThatPetPlace.com

And another thought, here is an interesting prodcut, I wonder has anyone tried feeding their tads these mosquito larave product? I guess the freshwater fish people probably already knew about it, but I learned something new today. this stuff seems to be packed with lipids/nutrition...anyone have some thoughts on the use of this stuff to raise tads??

ggazonas

· #11 · Jan 10, 2012

cbreon said:
It seems the guy from Italy may be onto something too with feeding mosquito larvae. This would be pretty difficult during the Winter months but during the warmer months of the year, setting a ten gal or so outside filling it with water and maybe some aquatic plants to help balance water quality, o2 levels seems like it would be a way to collect larvae and other insect nymphs that young tads would eat. Infact, I know some people use rainwater for their tads including Sean (at least he used to, 8-10 years ago) and I wonder if that water unknowingly had larvae in it which helped tads prosper...thoughts???

I've noticed that when my tanks have daphnia in the water the tads do grow faster and larger so the idea of mosquito larvae or other bug larvae isn't a bad idea.

I beleive that sean s. highlands have been coming from europe. I'm not usre if he is actaully breeding them now.

gigiols

· #12 · Jan 11, 2012

I use only the frozen mosquitoes larvae, here in Italy are very common as fresh water fish food. I think that E.anthonyi tadpoles appreciate not only vegetarian foods but they need half quantities of "meat" to grow up healthy. The only bad thing using it is that you have to change frequently the wtaer beause mosquitoes larvae pollute it very fastly causing tadpoles death. I think there haven't been so much import of this locality, maybe there are only a few importers in Europe that bring frogs from Latin America, my frogs come from Peruvian Frog Import that is located in Germany.

sjaakdaak

· #13 · Mar 21, 2012

gigiols said:
..., my frogs come from Peruvian Frog Import that is located in Germany.

The Netherlands, actually. I know in the eyes of many people Holland would only count as a province of some sort as it is small, but we actually are a country with our own language, even

I like the idea of feeding tadpoles frozen fishfood. It's commonly available and my fridge has plenty of space.

sjaakdaak

· #14 · Apr 12, 2012

Short question:

Would anyone happen to know where in Ecuador exactly the present line of Epipedobates anthonyi "highland" actually comes from? For most of the different forms of this species commonly available I already have sufficient info, but this particular form is somewhat elusive.

For those who'd like to know why I'm asking: I'm currently in the looooong process of setting up a biotope with plants and hardscaping all matching the same region. I managed to find several plant species that also occur in the direct vicinity of Salvias, the type location of the species, and plenty of pictures of the environment, but I'm a bit worried that, when I'm finally done building, the "Salvias"-morph is suddenly unavailable. Just to spread my chances of creating a real biotope I'd like to know whether I could also choose "Highland" as inhabitants.

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skylsdale

· #15 · Apr 12, 2012

Sjaakdaak, I tried sleuthing this out a few years ago but wasn't able to get the details I was looking for. Chuck Powell was able to provide this amount of information:

This frog was first brought in by Serpent's Egg out of Washington, D.C. in the late 80's or early 90's. Then they were imported through the fish trade, again out of Ecuador, two or three more times, coming in for perhaps the better part of a year, a year or two after they were initially brought in by Serpent's Egg. If I remember right Serpent's Egg was Volker Ennedback and Stacey something-or-other. Volker wrote an article on various tricolor forms for the ADG Newsletter and I believe gave collection data for that morph (and others). How accurate that data is is questionable. He also sent out price list a year or two before the article and those also might have some locality data.

JeremyHuff

· #16 · Apr 12, 2012

I know the ones Sean Stewart has been getting in from Europe came from the individual who has a series of photos of a greenhouse in the Lotters book, p193-194. The frogs are reared in the greenhouse, collected and sold to Sean. Not sure if the breeder collected them or purchased them.

EricM

· #17 · Apr 12, 2012

I have a copy of Volker's paper Terra Typica vol 1 no 1 from spring 1993.

quoted here

variation 3 chocolate brown and green
This is a smller variety of tricolor from Balsas in the Rio Poyango drainage. It has a dark brown ground color with relatively thin green dorsolateral and medial lines

variation 4 large brown and green
this broad-striped variation from Moraspunga in the Rio Zapotal drainage is a large, very finely colored tricolor. The lines are a broad, solid, grass green on a dark brown ground color. The ventrum has a so-called clown pattern, with alternating white and brown spots.

Thanks
ERic

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sjaakdaak

· #18 · Apr 12, 2012

Hi All,

Thanks, I guess this at least gives me a lead on where to start.
Eric, the animals originating from Moraspunga look a lot like the "Highland" anthonyi. They should, at least genetically, be very different, since Moraspunga lies in the region where only E. tricolor is found. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised when we learn that the "Highlands" aren't really anthonyi after all, or that at lease some were confused with "Moraspunga" in the past and interbred.

cbreon

· #19 · Apr 12, 2012

I know that Sean Stewart knows a Peruvian/Ecudorian bioligist who seems to be an expert in epipedobates particularly in tricolor. I beleive his name is Luis Colomba and I met him when he visited for ~2005 IAD. He might be someone that you try to contact

taken from another post:

If you want to study outside of the USA, then look into PUCE (Catholic University in Quito Ecuador) and Luis Coloma http://www.puce.edu.ec/Zoologia/vert...oma/index.html. Coloma will be speaking at http://www.intlamphibday.org/Welcome.asp

skylsdale

· #20 · Apr 12, 2012

sjaakdaak said:
...the animals originating from Moraspunga look a lot like the "Highland" anthonyi. They should, at least genetically, be very different, since Moraspunga lies in the region where only E. tricolor is found. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised when we learn that the "Highlands" aren't really anthonyi after all, or that at lease some were confused with "Moraspunga" in the past and interbred.

This has actually been one of the primary things I've been thinking about lately as I look at various froglets emerge. Below is a photo of some recent froglets, and I've actually been thinking lately that they have a lot of similarities to the Highland frogs (particularly in the barring on the back legs), but have not been able to see many representative images of confirmed/true Moraspungo frogs to know whether or not that is part of the diversity or if they have been mixed.

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