Dendroboard banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
285 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just successfully dusted my first batch of pinheads and fed them to my frogs. It was very difficult and I had to use a lot of containers to move the crickets back and forth to get rid of the excess "dust". It took a long time, so I was wondering if there are any techniques for quickly dusting and avoiding duping "dust" into your vivarium?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,415 Posts
If you have Isopods in your viv, they relish the dust and will make very short work of it. At least they love Repashy dust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,426 Posts
1. Get empty container
2. Put proper amount of dust into container (should not be much left when done coating flies)
3. Put funnel on top of empty container
4. Pour flies from culture (or pinheads, which are much more annoying) into the dusting container
5. Whirl dusting container with flies around for 10 sec. to coat the flies. They should not look like little snowmen, but the flies whould be white-ish.
6. Place culture horizontally and allow flies to crawl forwards until they reach the brim
7. When flies reach the brim tap the container gently so they fall into the viv. The extra dust doesn't move like the flies do so it should stay put.

Any dust that gets into the viv, which should be little, will end up on the leaf litter where it can be consumed by the microfauna. Iso's love the stuff.

Hope this helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,318 Posts
Mitch, why are you assuming that lightly dusted flies have sufficient supplements?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
285 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
1. Get empty container
2. Put proper amount of dust into container (should not be much left when done coating flies)
3. Put funnel on top of empty container
4. Pour flies from culture (or pinheads, which are much more annoying) into the dusting container
5. Whirl dusting container with flies around for 10 sec. to coat the flies. They should not look like little snowmen, but the flies whould be white-ish.
6. Place culture horizontally and allow flies to crawl forwards until they reach the brim
7. When flies reach the brim tap the container gently so they fall into the viv. The extra dust doesn't move like the flies do so it should stay put.

Any dust that gets into the viv, which should be little, will end up on the leaf litter where it can be consumed by the microfauna. Iso's love the stuff.

Hope this helps.
The crickets I dusted looked like snowmen afterward. I'll dust less next time, which will hopefully take care of my problem. Thanks. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
I don't think when Ed asks a question like that he is saying the opposite is true necessarily. He is questioning how something, which was stated as a fact, is known. We should all be doing this. Evidence may be available for the opposite being true, or it may have no effect and just how said person is doing something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,426 Posts
Mitch, why are you assuming that lightly dusted flies have sufficient supplements?
Ed, I learned that from this video:


I feed the exact same way as shown in this video. A little after 1:35 they talk about the snowman thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,318 Posts
I don't think when Ed asks a question like that he is saying the opposite is true necessarily. He is questioning how something, which was stated as a fact, is known. We should all be doing this. Evidence may be available for the opposite being true, or it may have no effect and just how said person is doing something.
Ding, ding ding, we have a winner.

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,318 Posts
I guess I have to explain it, instead of people figuring it out..

First off, Mitch you are making an apples and oranges comparision. Pecularis is using pinheads and not fruit flies. Dusting supplements are made for use with crickets and use in dusting other items is incidental.
The crickets should be dusted with what will readily stick to them. This is referenced from the Nutrition chaper in Reptile Medicine and Surgery where Dr. Donoghue references the results from a study.

Second off, are you using the exact same supplement that Richard is using in that video? (Rich is a good friend of mine by the way). If you are not, then again you are making an apples and oranges comparision as different supplement powders have different adherences which can also vary as some clump more over time. DUe to this variation, it is easily possible to cause undersupplementation of the frogs with that recommendation...

It is true that Dr. Donoghue references ( Mader's text) that fruit flies can retain enough supplements that oversupplementation is a risk but you are stating that they should be lightly dusted. This is a subjective description. Is your lightly dusted the same as Rich's? And in any case, it could easily be avoided by simply not feeding the frog's to excess...

There are other factors in play, and I'm tired so we can continue this discussion more later if you wish..

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
Ed, as opposed to all of this and multiple theories and feed descriptions etc. How about what supplements and feed insects do you use? At what intervals? I have read that pinheads have far more caloric value and proteins etc inherent than fruit flies but my adult darts grab 3 week pinheads...chew once or twice and spit...so maybe adherence to a singular food source and supplement type and feeding/dusting schedule could be offered by you...also I would assume that these would all changed based on frogs size,age and desired effect... I.E.


Age. Feed. Dust.

1 month oow daily Every 2

3 month oow. etc. Etc



12 month


Pair attempting to get breeding

Feed. Every 3 days with dusting each time for 2weeks and mist every 5 days

then for 2 weeks feed daily with supplements etc etc and mist 2 times a day


I think a thread with this info would be very helpful as I have holes in what I need to know as well

Or maybe suggest a book that EVERY beginner should buy IMMEDIATELY!!!

Or write one so I can buy it!!!!!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,318 Posts
I'm going to come back to this as I just typed out a very long response only to have it get eaten when I tried to back space to correct an error.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,318 Posts
The only reason there are multiple theories is because this is an area of husbandry that is rife with voodoo practices.
In reality the rules are fairly simple and consistent if you choose to follow what has been set forth by experts in the field (and no I am not referring to myself). To start out, the frequency of supplementation is based on the frequency of feeding. The guidelines put forth by Doctor Donoghue in collaboration with Dr. K. Wright and an exotic animal nutritionist followed the following simple rule. If you are feeding four (4) or more times a week, supplementation should be alternated with calcium carbonate dusting of the feeders, if the animals are fed three times a week or less then the dusting should be at each feeding with no alternation with calcium carbonate (Wright et al). This method deals with the risk of over supplementation.
At this time all of the supplements on the market were developed using the cricket as the model insect for dusting and that feeders like fruit flies retain more supplements than other feeders. The problem is that virtually all of the frogs in the hobby are obese as the frogs are hard wired to take advantage of period(s) of abundant food. This along with the restricted exercise results in obese frogs. This is compounded by a number of husbandry practices that tell people that froglets must have abundant food at all time or else they (choose your response) will die, not grow well, remain small… The problem with this is that it totally ignores the potential impact of a wide variety of husbandry practices that feed into this issue. In reality the real way to avoid the problem would be to feed the frogs appropriately.
A number of more experienced hobbyists rotate several different supplements as they feed as an early paper analyzing the supplements with respect to supplied nutrients as well as what was on the label demonstrated wide variations between what was on the label between batches as well as between brands. None of the newer supplements have been analyzed along these lines for several reasons ranging from threats of law suits as well as cost.
As for what I am using, you may not want to use what I am as I’m testing several different things at this time including reduced feeding schedules due to clay and microfaunal populations (currently I’m feeding some of my enclosures only once a week (see attached picture of a frog on that regimen for several years now).
I would suggest using at least one of the Repashy products for your frogs as that is currently the only supplement on the market that contains the main carotenoids found in the frogs as well as carotenoids that the frogs can use as an alternate pathway for retinol synthesis (it also contains retinoids). I have written extensively on this topic, here on the board, on frognet, in several articles as well as lectures at IAD and NAAC.
Amphibian nutrition is a relatively rapidly evolving field so most books have not kept up with the latest information.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
I guess I have been using too much because my brazilian yellow head wouldn't eat the FF after dusting, it would chew them for a second then spit them out. Today it ate some when I was watching cuz I didn't put as much calcium on im guessing. My green and black auratus didn't seem to care though either way. Im new here btw, great site!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,318 Posts
I guess I have been using too much because my brazilian yellow head wouldn't eat the FF after dusting, it would chew them for a second then spit them out. Today it ate some when I was watching cuz I didn't put as much calcium on im guessing. My green and black auratus didn't seem to care though either way. Im new here btw, great site!
Sigh......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Sigh......
Sometimes people mess up buddy, the guy I bought them from told me they would be fine in the same tank, I didn't run across this site until after I got the frogs so im in the process of getting another tank going. How about instead of a one word negative response type out what's actually wrong, these are forums for people to learn, not to be turned away because they received incorrect information from someone they believed to be knowledgeable. We all start somewhere
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,318 Posts
Try reading back a few posts for the information.. the sigh was because you had obviously skipped over the posts where this was discussed..

So double sigh.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Then why not say read back a few posts instead of saying "sigh" which doesn't help me and makes you look rude. As a matter of fact i read the thread from the start but does that mean I cannot ask a question hoping for a bit more insight? That's why this is the beginner section, for people who do not know as much as others and wish to learn.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top