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Discussion Starter #1
As title, do Tincs only use the vivarium floor? I understand they're not arboreal as such but how much climbing do they actually do, what are their limitations - and why?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks. I ask because I keep reading that they ‘need’ floor space in a viv. They’re doubtless happier on the ground but just how much vertical space will they actually use?
 

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My azureus climb some challenging obstacles. Their graceful movement is not why I keep them. They struggle to do some things but they get floor to the highest perches.

My largest cobalt can move quite well up and well she’s got descent problems. My cobalt male has a Frank Reynolds physique and isn’t a fan of climbing and going up.

Yes, give them height to move up and down.
 

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I haven't kept tinctorius in years, but I seem to remember them easily climbing a couple of feet high, and would have gone higher if they had the chance.

They weren't particularly good at it but managed well enough.

How high is 'terrestrial'? 3, 4, 5, 6 feet? What does that entail in terms of inclines, perches, obstacles etc.?

I think giving them as much space as is practical is always a good idea. Just maybe have a few levels of plants to break their fall. ;)
 

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All my tincs are in 24 inch high tanks and I regularly find them climbing to the top and staying there for several days to a week until coming back down. My tanks also all have different levels so that all their weight is supported and they feel comfortable. I think in the grand scheme of things, climbing just 2 feet high doesn't really make an animal 'arboreal'. 24 inches is nothing.
 

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All Dart Frogs climb.

Some 'roost' high at night to avoid predators.

There is a certain percentage of time the frog will be high or low - usually based on body habitus.

We basically have two choices in this hobby - to make a 'tall' tank or a 'flatter' tank. Yes, there are square tanks, but for the sake of this discussion....

I use Tall for thumbnails and pumilio / types

I use flatter tanks for heavy bodied frogs like tincs and phylos and those types.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks all.

And to counter (it's about species choice!) do Ranitomeya use ground level even if just for feeding?
 

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It just depends on the frogs. My Nominal Fants seem to value the floor space quite a bit. They hang out low more often. I rarely see my Reticulata on the ground. Vanzos are somewhere in between. My pums and other obligates seem to use it all fairly equally. Tincs and Terribs will go everywhere but spend the majority of time on the ground. Just remember that all of the above could be as much about a response to how I have my tanks set up as to a genuine preference toward a specific "level."

Mark
 

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Thanks all.

And to counter (it's about species choice!) do Ranitomeya use ground level even if just for feeding?
Same answer, all of the frogs should (be able to) use every inch of our tanks... C'mon guys, we are only talking about a few inches... I realy don't understand why some people say their frogs live on the botom of their tank or some only live higher. Than I can only say they have a problem with their tank or the tank does not have enougf surface or the botom is to wet or the top is too hot,....

Last weekend I was at a lecture were Guido Sterkendries told me that he found O.Vincentei in trees at a hight of 14meters during the dry period and they climb to 40meters during the rainseason... Thats 26meters difference for a frog thats about 2centimeters tall. When you see clips of insitu frogs, you notice they jump meters in just a few seconds.

I hope this answer helps.
 

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Sorry you don't like how my frogs behave, Tijl :) I guess they haven't read the papers! I agree that most frogs will use the whole tank eventually. However, there are very definite patterns to where many (most?) frogs spend the majority of their time. Why would you not choose a tank design and form factor that support the majority of where they spend their time? Should I invest all the time and money in a super tall enclosure for frogs that will use it maybe 5% of their lives? I think it's a perfectly valid strategy to build tanks with the most common habits of the frogs in mind. That's the way I do all of my tanks. I wouldn't waste a 36" tall enclosure on my Terribs. It just isn't worth it. I will invest that money and space in a species that takes more advantage of it. If I had the money and space, all of my frogs would be in 36x18x36 tanks or larger. That's not my reality, though, so I make what I feel are appropriate compromises.

Mark
 

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Sorry you don't like how my frogs behave, Tijl :) I guess they haven't read the papers! I agree that most frogs will use the whole tank eventually. However, there are very definite patterns to where many (most?) frogs spend the majority of their time. Why would you not choose a tank design and form factor that support the majority of where they spend their time? Should I invest all the time and money in a super tall enclosure for frogs that will use it maybe 5% of their lives? I think it's a perfectly valid strategy to build tanks with the most common habits of the frogs in mind. That's the way I do all of my tanks. I wouldn't waste a 36" tall enclosure on my Terribs. It just isn't worth it. I will invest that money and space in a species that takes more advantage of it. If I had the money and space, all of my frogs would be in 36x18x36 tanks or larger. That's not my reality, though, so I make what I feel are appropriate compromises.

Mark
haha, I totaly understand what your are saying tho. I am just not as good with words and the English language as you are. :D I 100% agree with you saying that most frogs don't need a very huge tank, but all the tanks should be designed for the individual behavior and needs of a specific type of frog. When we accomplish that, you we see the frogs all over the tank and or space that they are given and they can use. Even terribilis ;)
 

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Your English is great, Tijl, and a lot better than I am with French, German or Dutch! I get what you are saying, too. I have enough experience with different species in different tanks, though, that I don't buy into the idea that frogs don't have a preference as to where they spend their time. I can't accept that tank design would lead to my Terribs spending more time in the heights of the tank than on the ground. Almost all frogs will follow food into the heights of the tank, but I think that some will return to spending time in the places in the tank where they are most comfortable (lower). I stand by what I said about where my frogs tend to spend time. It is possible that it is all tank design that drives them to these locations, but I don't think that's it completely. My Retics have every opportunity to spend more time on the ground and they don't. It's just not where they are comfortable.

Good discussion!

Mark
 

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Your English is great, Tijl, and a lot better than I am with French, German or Dutch! I get what you are saying, too. I have enough experience with different species in different tanks, though, that I don't buy into the idea that frogs don't have a preference as to where they spend their time. I can't accept that tank design would lead to my Terribs spending more time in the heights of the tank than on the ground. Almost all frogs will follow food into the heights of the tank, but I think that some will return to spending time in the places in the tank where they are most comfortable (lower). I stand by what I said about where my frogs tend to spend time. It is possible that it is all tank design that drives them to these locations, but I don't think that's it completely. My Retics have every opportunity to spend more time on the ground and they don't. It's just not where they are comfortable.

Good discussion!

Mark
Yes, this is a good discussion. My believe is that we just cannot create enougf comfterable space that they CAN use. We have to be aware of airflow, temperatures, humidity, microclimate, light intensity,... This is hard to perfect or optimize is our small enclosures. That is why they prefer some spots is the tank that suit them as being the best. I am sure if I change they layout of the tank, our adjust the lighting or airflow, the frogs change their "regular" spots. So they can move from the upper part of the tank, to sundely being at the ground all the time.

I am sure your reticulata can be made comftrable at the ground, if the ground space or another factor get adjusted to suits their needs better than the other spots in the tank. Sometimes something as simple as adding or removing a plant can cause this to happen.

:)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I suppose I need my question answering subjectively... what species would you put in this 55g? :)

 
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