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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all. This is a companion to a documentary thread, showcasing an experiment in lighting. My goal is to compare and contrast two different LED lights. One, a name brand (Jungle Dawn™) by one of our sponsors, Lightyourreptiles.com, and another, which will represent the newest, non branded LED, available to our hobby, and sold on this board. This is NOT about advertising. I have NO financial interest in who's bulb performs best. I have NOT brokered any deals for kickbacks, commissions, or future monetary interests. I am simply here to answer one main question: Is the name brand bulb really better than available generics? This question is divided into several sub-sections. As part of this experiment, I will be testing for cost of operation in Kilowatts/Hr. I will test for color temperature in Kelvin, lumen/foot squared, and overall appearance. Last, and probably the most important test, will be carried out by life, itself. I have personally selected 11 different species of plants (two of each) based on their response to higher qualities of light. I have also selected an additional 6 cultivars of Tillandsia, again for their response to more intense, and higher quality of light. Please subscribe to this thread, and when made available, it's sister thread, which will contain photographic documentation and various measurements. Although I will do my best to maintain proper scientific method, this is by no means a thorough and/or peer reviewed study. This is simply to determine if there is any real difference that may warrant further study. The gauntlet was layed down by Todd in a previous discussion on Jungle Dawn™ Bulbs. I quote, "let's have a showdown", as proclaimed by Todd. I thought it was a great idea and, here we are! So, let the showdown begin!!!! Over the course of the next couple days, I will start a thread in the "Parts and Construction" section of this board. Please stop by and see my progress as it unfolds. It will be a lot of fun, and will help my fellow froggers determine what's best for them and their charges. Thank you, everyone!


*****NOTE*****

The reason I am doing two separate threads is to discern between discussion and data collection. Please refrain from posting to the data collection and display thread, as it will only lead to a dilution of the experimental data. PLEASE, DO make any comments, criticism (preferably constructive as we do not need another thread on who's the bad guy), and suggestions on this thread. I will do my very best to keep up with questions, and the like. If you have any non constructive criticism, please PM it directly to me. No need to impede progress just because someone thinks my meter is a cheap piece of $4it. It is!! This is about a comparison, not a PhD dissertation, to be published in a peer reviewed journal. Again, and above anything, this is supposed to be fun! After all, it is a hobby. Thank you. ~David
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm going to need to let the power consumption test run longer than expected. My meter resolution is only to hundredths of a Kw/Hr. Over six hours, both bulbs consumed the same. Depending of what the thousandths, an so on values are, the difference could very well be in the multiples. I am also getting a lower than I thought wattage rating. This time, both are slightly different, significant to the tenths of a watt. Any input on this? Both are rated at 13 watts.
 

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To me it looks like youre getting more watts from right side bulb. This would make test unfair, anyway to use the same leddriver on both bulbs? That should even it out, you should ask LYR for a driver. Far as i know his have better qc.
 

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Your eyes see yellow light better than blues, which is what gives a yellow light a more white spectrum. It's possible that it has to do with the efficiency, but is also affected by the spectrum of the light
 

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So true...

But some of the non Jungle dawn® bulbs are being advertised as "13 watts"... even though some only contain 54 diodes.

(The 54 diode Jungle Dawns® are sold as 11 watts.)

I actually have no idea what others sent him to use in this test,

or even if they realized that their "13 watt LEDs" were possibly not pulling a full 13 watts and re- grouped and sent him a 60 diode unit.??

That being said,
I think the test IS matching what I call a 13 watt unit with what my competitors are selling as a 13 watt unit.

Is that true David?

and can you also tell us how many diodes in the right and the left units?

Thank you!
Todd

PS.
The LED driver component at the heart of the Jungle Dawns® is made inhouse by the factory that produces them.
It is not a generic component.
They are pretty heavy duty as far as little drivers go.... a real work horse.:)

To me it looks like youre getting more watts from right side bulb. This would make test unfair, anyway to use the same leddriver on both bulbs? That should even it out, you should ask LYR for a driver. Far as i know his have better qc.
 

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Your eyes see yellow light better than blues, which is what gives a yellow light a more white spectrum. It's possible that it has to do with the efficiency, but is also affected by the spectrum of the light
So true...

The spectrum of natural sunlight ranges from about 5500K to 6800k

And it is very true, the yellower the light is, the brighter it seems.

4.5k will appear to our eyes much brighter than 6.5k

A light meter reading would be interesting to see on these set ups, if you have one handy!:)

Cheers!
Todd
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The second bulb being tested contains 64 diodes, all of which appear to be the same. There is no yellow row, or even a single yellow diode. This bulb was sent to me as a 13 watt bulb, according to the person who supplied it. Both bulbs are testing at the same whole watt. The difference is a tenth of a watt.

So true...

But some of the non Jungle dawn® bulbs are being advertised as "13 watts"... even though some only contain 54 diodes.

(The 54 diode Jungle Dawns® are sold as 11 watts.)

I actually have no idea what others sent him to use in this test,

or even if they realized that their "13 watt LEDs" were possibly not pulling a full 13 watts and re- grouped and sent him a 60 diode unit.??

That being said,
I think the test IS matching what I call a 13 watt unit with what my competitors are selling as a 13 watt unit.

Is that true David?

and can you also tell us how many diodes in the right and the left units?

Thank you!
Todd

PS.
The LED driver component at the heart of the Jungle Dawns® is made inhouse by the factory that produces them.
It is not a generic component.
They are pretty heavy duty as far as little drivers go.... a real work horse.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I will be comparing a few aspects of the CFL and T8 florescent lights. Having used florescent t8 tubes and cfl bulbs in my collection for years, and once i began using these LED's, I assure you the standard daylight florescents could not hold a candle (pun intended) to the Jungle dawn bulb. That being said, I will still offer certain parameters of florescent lighting for everyone to see. My main interest is cost of operation.

Why don't you do one more with a popular brand of CFL, just because? :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I do have a light meter, Todd. I will be posting those results within the coming days.

Oh, the bulb on the right is the 13 watt, 64 diode, generic. The 13 watt Jungle dawn bulb is on the left.


So true...

The spectrum of natural sunlight ranges from about 5500K to 6800k

And it is very true, the yellower the light is, the brighter it seems.

4.5k will appear to our eyes much brighter than 6.5k

A light meter reading would be interesting to see on these set ups, if you have one handy!:)

Cheers!
Todd
 

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I'm gonna throw this here again since no one seems to want to answer my question. Why are we not measuring PAR on these bulbs, that's what really matters..

PAR and spectrum/kelvin are really all that matter to me, I mean I want it to grow plants well and look good to my eyes.

Can somebody PLEASE enlighten me on why we don't use PAR measurements on anything in this hobby.


Edit for above post: lumens? Really? This is exactly what I'm talking about, why don't we just start talking about foot candles too? It's so antiquated and does not directly correlate to what we are trying to accomplish, which is growing plants.
 

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I'm gonna throw this here again since no one seems to want to answer my question. Why are we not measuring PAR on these bulbs, that's what really matters..

PAR and spectrum/kelvin are really all that matter to me, I mean I want it to grow plants well and look good to my eyes.

Can somebody PLEASE enlighten me on why we don't use PAR measurements on anything in this hobby.


Edit for above post: lumens? Really? This is exactly what I'm talking about, why don't we just start talking about foot candles too? It's so antiquated and does not directly correlate to what we are trying to accomplish, which is growing plants.
I think some of it is simplicity...

It is easier for lay people to get their minds around 2-3 watts per gallon average as a general rule of thumb, or 1200-2000 lumens for a 10 gallon or something like that.

Lumens may not technically have much to do with what a plant actually needs to grow, but if you are using full spectrum lighting and can achieve a tank that looks bright to the human eye, then generally you'll be getting enough light to grow most plants adequately.

Some of us are interested in PAR, spectrum, etc... others not so much. They just wanna know what light their viv needs over it to look good and grow some plants and don't wanna do a bunch of math to figure that out.

The watts per gallon rule of thumb has served me well enough over the years. I modify it a bit depending on tank height and type of light source, and I find I tend to like my tanks closer to 3-4 watts per gallon, but overall it is a simple way to find a place to start from, and once you have some experience lighting some vivs and using different types of lights you can pretty much eyeball it and know what you'll need.

I'm all for delving into more though...It is interesting and leads to good things sometimes :)
 

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I guess my thoughts on it are why not evolve? If we are discussing which bulb is best, especially putting a board sponsor against an unknown brand, or comparing any lighting system why not have the most useful and relevant information?

There's a reason the reef hobby uses par, and if anyone is good at growing photosynthetic organisms its them.
 

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I guess my thoughts on it are why not evolve? If we are discussing which bulb is best, especially putting a board sponsor against an unknown brand, or comparing any lighting system why not have the most useful and relevant information?

There's a reason the reef hobby uses par, and if anyone is good at growing photosynthetic organisms its them.
I agree, I just think that increased complexity is a hurdle for some. :)
 
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