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Ok I have updated the format and some minor text, please lets work on this one. Im having a bit of trouble listing any pumilio as anything but advanced. I realize some are easy to care for but im not sure any pums should be intermediate.

Thoughts?
 

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Adults fall into intermediate for me... I consider them on par with imitator. The morphs like bastimentos are easy to breed... actually most of the pumilio are easy to breed (its getting them to raise the damn tadpoles...). Froglets of even the easy to breed frogs are not even intermediate level - some of the trickiest frogs I've worked with. I'm all for leaving the species as a whole as advanced - even if one part of their life cycle is novice (adult) if other parts of their life cycle are advanced (froglets for the easier to produce morphs, tadpoles and froglets for the more advanced) the species as a whole should be ranked harder. You don't need a ton of experience for the common pumilio adults - you need a lot of experience to successfully raise the froglets to adults.

People are thinking due to the ease of getting FR adults, they are somewhat easy (because easy to breed frogs are usually the most common in the hobby). Anyone notice the lack of CB animals from the thousands of Chiriqui Rivers, Man Creeks, and Bastimentos that have come in over the years? Adults of FR imports (recent imports at least) are easy to get, and many are easy to breed... but there is a serious lack of CBs being sold.

I think we might want to list the easiest to breed morphs in the care sheets (bastis as advanced), and lable the rest as being only for the most advanced people/experts, like the rest of the eggfeeders.
 

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I think that the designation is a tough call. I think we need to change the title of the care sheet to:

Dendrobates pumilio - Intermediate to Expert

We can then designate the intermediate morphs within the care sheet, and then the others that are to be left for the experts (Darklands, Blue Jeans, etc.)

Here are some more pics:

Yellow-Belly

Yellow-Belly froglet
 

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I think that Oz's suggestion of 'Intermediate to Expert' is a good one for two reasons. First off pumilio are unique amongst many of the PDFs in that most of the frogs for sale come from FR/WC with the challenges of acclimation and 'debugging'. So while the adults are pretty tough little buggers, transitioning them is not like falling off a log.

Also breeding is not trivial for many of the forms and as many people have discovered, growing up the froglets isn't duck soup either.

Just my 0.02

Bill
 

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I agree with Bill, as usual :) Probibly easiest just to list the ones that would be considered intermediate, and say everything else is advanced. Not even sure I'd want to include pics of the "expert" forms... its a pretty bad tease.
 

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Yes those are Darklands.....Shhhhh ;) (No need to credit me publicly for those)
 

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So, I added the names for my pictures into the sheet. I referred to them as "Yellow-Belly". I know that JohnnyM and some others who are working with frogs from this importation have started calling them Cayos - but I don't think that is the responsible thing to do, especially with the presence of other Cayo bloodlines in the hobby.

If anyone has an issue with this, feel free to change it.
 

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There are true Cayo de Aquas in the US with actual locality data, so I agree with the labling of them as Yellow Bellies (which may or may not be Aquas). In general I'd recomend not mixing PFR (panama farm raised) pumilio with "old line" pumilio present in the hobby before the importations even if they seem very similar, as there is a good change they aren't the same thing (The PFR uyamas are NOT the same as the Uyama Rivers present before the imporation, and are better labled as Uyama IIs like in the european morph guide as they are a different morph). The only possibly exception might be bastimentos pums.
 

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Considering half of the posts in this thread discuss what pums should be labled as (intermediate or expert) there needs to at least be something in the care sheet that explain this.

Also compairing this to the other care sheets, it seems really skimpy. Here are some areas that could be added/beefed up to help this care sheet out: breeding aspects of pums (which would include raising froglets IMO), techniques used for sexing adults, notes on getting WC/FR frogs since they're pretty available right now, natural and disturbed habitat, and maybe a description of the US morphs (similar to the Auratus and Triv care sheet).

I think it's a good caresheet as is, but adding some/all/other-than-the things I mentioned would really take it over the top compaired to everything else online about these guys.
 

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Good points mike and I really want to to get this one moving but Im not sure im the person to do it. If there is any frog I have not had great luck with it is pums. Ill try to add some content at least general things.
 

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I've been thinking about compiling all of the info and discussions about sexing and writing something for this but time has been on the short side lately for any amount of serious work.
 

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Unfortunately Mike - I think that is the problem for all of us. As you said - this is a good template - but we really need to beef it up.

I am hoping to have some more time to get to the care sheets after classes are over in a couple of weeks.
 

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i`d say expert for all pumilio and put in a disclaimer that cb and acclimated adults usually do very well in captivity breeding puts them in the expert list. i`ll b back w/ pics soon.
 

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before i go shooting up a storm and dling do you guys want more pics? escudos, basti froglets, rio branco froglets, chiriqui river froglets, man creek froglets?
 
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