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Discussion Starter #1
I was checking out this care sheet creation section and realized that Lamsi are not in here unless I am blind and missed it. These are some awesome frogs that are in demand and I would think that they deserve a care sheet. I would love to start one, but as I don't have them (at least not for a few more days) I wouldn't be the most qualified and would love for someone with ample experience with them to chime in here and give me a hand until I can make some observations of my own. Thanks

Stace
 

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feel free to start one then let everyone build on it. I will say that one could b interesting... Most people want the standards and most people can't get them to breed, yet the others breed like rabbits.
 

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Uggh I started one on lamasi off line a while back using the template Kyle provided but rapidly got pretty frustrated trying to incorporate all the inconsistencies that these frogs provide...Kyle's point about breeding behavior of the standards being one of them.

Oh well, second time is a charm. Thanks for the reminder and hopefully we'll get lots of contributions.

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think one of the hurdles we'll face will be the difficulty level across the board for the different tyoes of Lamasi. I would not hesitate to say most would consider the GL Lamasi or the Panguana intermediate at the highest, but very few would consider the Standards as intermediate. I'll try and work on a start for these tomorrow when I get home, but like Bill said, this one should become a challenge!
 

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I was recently talking with one of the Dendrobates.org guys and realized something of note... assuming the panguana lamasi are truely lamasi we've got two very different groups of animals in the hobby... the standards which are highland, and the panguanas which are lowland. This partially accounts for the numorous differences between the two groups (and why pangs are easy frogs I'd put as good beginner thumbs but shy, where the standards are more advanced frogs that tend towards skittish to bold).

I'll add my thoughts to the caresheet.
 

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Dendrobates lamasi - Intermediate to Advanced

Dendrobates lamasi:
  • Difficulty: Intermediate (lowland morphs) to advanced (highland morphs)
    [/*:m:2pp7q25v]
  • Location & History: Wet forest in the provinces of Pasco and Huánuco, Peru. Described Morales, 1992.(1)

    Proposed taxonomic change to Ranitomeya lamasi (Grant, Frost, Caldwell, Gagliardo, Haddad, Kok, Means, Noonan, Schargel, and Wheeler, 2006)
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  • Descriptions & Behavior: These frogs belong to the Thumbnail species group (proposed genus Ranitomeya) and the species as a whole can be split into two groups, Highland and Lowland. Both groups of populations show a species typical ventral yellow spot on the belly (contrasting with the blue to grey netting that continues from the legs) as well as a yellow spot on the throat. They also have tadpoles that have a characteristic yellow/gold marking on the nose that distinguishes these tadpoles from similar related species.

    Highland:
    'Standard' - These are rather large frogs (for thumbnails) with bright yellow longitudinal markings over black body (yellow about equal to greater in amount as the black), with bright powder blue legs marked with round, black spots. Pairs of these animals can take up to two years to successfully reproduce, even though they mature at a typical thumbnail age of 6-8 months (?). Their temperment depends on the individual and conditions, and varies from skittish to bold. This morph is for advanced keepers only due to general difficultly in successfully keeping and breeding this frog.

    Lowland: These morphs are smaller in size, have narrower stripes on the dorsal, are skittish to extremely shy frogs, reproduce easily in captivity and ease of care is intermediate - an excellent beginner thumbnail. These frogs are still known (incorrectly) as D. imitator 'Panguana' in Europe, and have also been attempted to be imported to the US under the idea that they were D. biolat.
    'Panguana' - Pinstripe yellow markings on the dorsal with grey legs with round, black spots.
    'Green-Legged Panguana' - Typical markings are basically the same as 'Panguana' lamasi, but vary in that the dorsal markings are not always straight and "clean", and the overall color on the frog is that of a 'Panguana' with a green wash over it... greenish yellow dorsal markings with greenish grey legs.
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  • General Care:

    While not truely arboreal, they do seem to have a preference for tanks at least as tall as they are long/wide, or taller (vertically oriented tanks). While they do not use bromeliads in the wild for breeding, (2) their plant preferences are not feasible in our small tanks and bromeliads are a well accepted alternative. Leaf litter is also recomended, especially in tanks containing froglets, as it allows for populations of springtails to thrive in the tanks and cover for froglets once they morph.

    Feeding wise these frogs will thrive on a staple of FFs as their diet but will actively eat other feeder insects as well, especially those that move around the top levels of the tank. The smaller Lowland morphs prefer a staple of melanogaster FFs, while the larger highland 'Standard' can take hydei as well.
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  • Breeding & tadpole Care:

    Clutches of eggs range in number from 2-? eggs, and are usually laid on a vertical surface (3) and many hobbyests have had success with them laying in film canisters (direction?) as well as depositing tadpoles in water filled film canisters, other containers, and bromeliads (although preference in the wild is for bamboo in 'Standard' and Heliconia and Xanthosoma in the Lowland populations) (2). Tadpoles are transported by the males (3).

    Tadpoles can be distinguished from other thumbnail tadpoles by the bright yellow/gold nose marking they develop a few days after hatching and the rest of their coloration also develops comparatively early on in development (compared to other PDFs that develop froglet coloration just before morphing)(3). If left in the tank, they will feed off bacterial slime in their container, insects that have fallen in the water, detritus, and eggs provided by a female. They can also be pulled and raised outside of the tank, as they are faculative eggfeeders, rather than obligate eggfeeders which need to be cared for by their parents to survive. Tadpoles require an omnivorous diet (3) such as tropical fish flakes and Frog & Tadpoles Bites, and tadpole diets with a majority of algae in them should be avioded.

    Metamorphs morph out almost half the size of the parents, tend to be rather hardy, and eat melanogaster FFs straight out of the water. Springtails are enjoyed by these frogs from metamorph to adults, but are not required to start a froglets as in some related species.
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  • Pictures:
    Standard Lamasi:





    Standard Lamasi Morphing:


    Panguana Lamasi:




    Green Legged Lamasi:



    [/*:m:2pp7q25v]
References:
(1) The American Museam of Natural History Amphibian Species Database v4.0 Online
(2)Dendrobates.org with assistance from Evan Twomey
(3) BDG Archive - Dendrobates lamasi

Contributers:
Corey Wickliffe (kerokero)

If you would like to see any updates or modifications to this care sheet please let myself or a moderator know.

Last Updated: 9/9/2006
 

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A couple of additions/edits from my experiences with Standards:

Behavior is more shy to skittish - not bold.

Males begin to call at 6-8 months of age, and call is an audible "chirp" (similar to imitator). Females can be easily distinguished from males due to thier rotund body type.

Clutches range from 1-3 eggs - and I get more 1 egg clutches from these frogs than any of my other thumbs.

Eggs readily found in black and white canisters oriented at 45 degrees below horizontal with a small pool in the bottom. Eggs are laid on the sides and top of the film canister - not near the water (more imitator/intermedius - less vent/variabilis). Eggs also laid on horizontal brom leaves.

May want to mention that SLS has been readily reported in young breeding groups of Standards (25% IME).

Here are a couple of pics. Owing to the shy nature (and wealth of hiding places in my tank) - I don't have any good adult pics. Maybe Bill can help with that.

Standard Morphing froglet:


Standard froglet:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK, so like Bill I have been playing with this offline and am having some trouble. I keep running into so many caveats that make it run like a ball of spaghetti. I keep starting and running into a situation of this is how it is with this morph, but with another morph it is different, so I'm not sure how to streamline this and get it workable. I almost wonder if it would be easier to do 2 separate care sheets... one for the Standards and one for the beginner morphs (GL and Pang). Otherwise, this thing is going to start to run all different ways and is probably going to confuse more than help. Let me know what you guys think...
 

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Corey already started one:

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19603
** Nevermind - just merged the two topics into one - so sorry for any confusion


I don't think we should split it. We are working with the same difficulties with the Pumilio sheet, and have addressed it in the Imitator/Intermedius sheet (for Yuris and Bandeds). We just have to make notes where there are differences.

Add info where you think it needs to be, and we can work it into a working compilation.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I think that I can agree with Oz so far on the boldness of the standards in saying they are not bold in the traditional sense of the word, but compared to the lowland morphs I would say they are much more bold. I would not go so far as to call them bold, but they are definitely mine are definitely more bold than Gl's form what I have heard. Mine seem to have no problem with me doing things in the tank (mistng, feeding, etc) and do not dash for cover when the door opens... actually they just kind sit and look rather than run. I can provide some pics if you guys want them when I get home but I'm locked on this computer and can't get them.
 

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Stace -

You also need to let your frogs get acclimated to their viv/container first. I find that frogs considered "shy" are extremely "bold" in new vivs - just because they haven't found the best places to dart off to yet. But within a few weeks, their behavior changes dramatically. It may or may not be true with your frogs, but give them some time.

Oz
 

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Discussion Starter #14
That very well could be true. I hope not, but they are still getting used to it so I'll have to amend that thought later on I guess.
 

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I was basing the bold statement off the experiences I've heard with some keepers... they tend to be out and about but skittish, with some being up to the imitator level of bold (although this seems like it may be the acception not the rule). So outgoing but skittish might be the best definition?

The pangs I know are shy (rarely seen, but often heard) to out and about but very skittish.
 

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A few photos...

Standard Lamasi







Panguana Lamasi






Green Legged Lamasi






I thought the photo with the mom and tad was a nice addition to show the gold nosed appearance referred to in the care sheet....

Bill
 
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