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This thread is being created as a companion to the original
"Dart Frog Warehouse" thread.

Feel free to continue your discussions here. We understand that you all have concerns and issues you want to discuss. This thread is a platform for you to continue to do that. However, keep in mind that it is still a moderated section of the forum. As such, it is expected that you keep the content within the confines of the User Agreement

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Since we have had problems with it in the past, any mention of religion in this thread will result in an immediate BAN from the site (length determined at the judgement of the Moderator)

Also, leave your memes/youtube videos at home.

Keep it clean everyone...
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Well, I don't like the closing nor do I feel this is an appropriate forum, but I suppose it is good to have some kind of discussion.

In my phone conversation with Rick, he knocked Repashy and then said that they (DFW) will be coming out with their own supplement.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

In my phone conversation with Rick, he knocked Repashy and then said that they (DFW) will be coming out with their own supplement.
Interesting.

Would anyone actually trust them to even know what needs to be in a proper supplement.

On the one hand you have Allen Repashy with years of experience creating supplements and foods for countless species, not just dart frogs. He has actually done the research to know the requirements for each species. He is trusted by hobbyists, zoos, aquariums, and researchers around the world.

On the other hand, you have the Wascher's, self proclaimed scientists who have demonstrated a fundamental lack of understanding of proper supplementation and it's proper use. Let's recall that they don't know why you don't reuse the limited waste left over after using a supplement, nor do they know how to properly use supplements so that too much waste is not generated. Does anyone actually think they will use quality ingredients? In the proper proportions? Will properly labels, store, cycle a vitamin supplement. Irrelevant to us really, as nobody here would buy it, but it could harm the people they do sell to.

What they'll probably do is pay someone else to fill bottles for them with an established product and rebrand it with their logos, claim it is something special, and refuse to release what is actually in it. They'll claim they're protecting their intellectual property or some other garbage.

Now here is the fun part for Rick, when he catches up. This is something I know something about, because I delt with specifically importing products without labels that conform to US regulations(importing products from Japan and Europe for aquarium use, food, water additives, etc.) It is impossible, they don't care, you will have to print what is in the label on the bottle. If and or when you do this, know that I know exactly who to report you to if your products are not labeled correctly. This goes to the safety of children who you admit are your target clients who could be adversely effected if they ingest an improperly labeled product.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

I'd also like to call on our Tennessee members to go to the show the Waschers are attending Vendors - Nashville Exotic Pet Expo April 12-13, 2014
October 11-12, 2014
Tennessee State Fairgrounds
Saturday from 9 am till 4 pm
Sunday from 9 am till 3 pm
Admission $5

You guys should stand at their table, steer away all interested persons, direct them here, to the thread as well, so they can buy QUALITY dart frogs from reputable people. And take pics/videos of their stuff, pepper them with questions and for god sakes talk to poor Dillon. Let's see if he really has that genius head on his shoulders. Maybe he can turn out to be a hobbyiest for the better. Time we fought back, and that has to start with Rick. I wish I could hop on a plane and cause my own stink.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

I'd also like to call on our Tennessee members to go to the show the Waschers are attending Vendors - Nashville Exotic Pet Expo April 12-13, 2014
October 11-12, 2014
Tennessee State Fairgrounds
Saturday from 9 am till 4 pm
Sunday from 9 am till 3 pm
Admission $5

You guys should stand at their table, steer away all interested persons, direct them here, to the thread as well, so they can buy QUALITY dart frogs from reputable people. And take pics/videos of their stuff, pepper them with questions and for god sakes talk to poor Dillon. Let's see if he really has that genius head on his shoulders. Maybe he can turn out to be a hobbyiest for the better. Time we fought back, and that has to start with Rick. I wish I could hop on a plane and cause my own stink.
That would be funny to have 20 froggers chip in on a table and bring their inventories and charge $1 less than DFW on everything while handing out informational sheets.

Doug - Yeah they are opening a can of worms for sure with their own supplements. I took an animal nutrition class a couple of semesters ago and we went into detail for maybe a week about all of the guidelines that have to be followed. There are so many hoops to jump through, I'm sure 1 or 2 will be missed. The justifications for why their supplements will dominate Allen Repashy's will be an interesting read. Since they are mixing experts, they will probably just mix the pink jar with the blue jar and call it the Cal-RepTM.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

As an example on the issue of waste. USDARTfrog claims the repashy products have too much waste.

No, they don't. USDARTfrog creates too much waste when using their products because they don't know how to use them properly.

This picture shows the amount of waste I had left over this morning feeding out 18 vivariums and 22 growout containers. This is the combines waste from three types of flies, hydei, Turkish gliders, and wingless Melos. 67 collection frogs, and approximately 100 froglets. No where near the thousands of frogs they CLAIM to be raising, but a tiny amount of waste. Even if you were to extrapolate this to the amount of frogs USDARTfrog allegedly raises, it would still be a tiny insignificant amount.

And yes, I'll be throwing this out because unlike USDARTfrog, I don't have an unrealistic and uninformed expectation of reusability because I understand WHY this supplement, and any other supplement should NEVER be reused after this. Wanting to be able to reuse the left over Shake is just being lazy and cheep.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Well, I don't like the closing nor do I feel this is an appropriate forum, but I suppose it is good to have some kind of discussion.

In my phone conversation with Rick, he knocked Repashy and then said that they (DFW) will be coming out with their own supplement.
LoL... ok ya sure, can't wait to see them try that. I hope they try. The time/expense it will cost to take on Repashy and then fail will put them out of business faster.

At least Repashy can show up to a forum and talk to people in the hobby without starting world war 3.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

LoL... ok ya sure, can't wait to see them try that. I hope they try. The time/expense it will cost to take on Repashy and then fail will put them out of business faster.

At least Repashy can show up to a forum and talk to people in the hobby without starting world war 3.
Not to mention that Allen Repashy WELCOMES the opportunity to discuss his formulas with real scientists.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Not to mention that Allen Repashy WELCOMES the opportunity to discuss his formulas with real scientists.
I am so glad that there are quality people in this hobby. because there is no question in my mind that whatever DFW comes up with it will be trademarked, and held as a "trade secret". there is no chance you will ever get them to discuss what is in the stuff.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

I am so glad that there are quality people in this hobby. because there is no question in my mind that whatever DFW comes up with it will be trademarked, and held as a "trade secret". there is no chance you will ever get them to discuss what is in the stuff.
If they're going to package it and sell it, especially as a suppliment for feeding an animal, they will have to disclose the ingredients. This is a federal law. As I mentioned previously, I worked for a company that was importing aquarium products, foods, supplements etc, from Japan. They could not be sold without proper labeling. We eventually had to have labels that conformed to US regulations printed to be placed on the bottles.

For example, even Dendrocare which is imported from Europe is properly labeled.

Not that I think anyone would use a vitamin suppliment if the vendor refused to disclose the contents. You're just supposed to trust them? I think not.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Not to mention that Allen Repashy WELCOMES the opportunity to discuss his formulas with real scientists.
Not only that, but he often gives free samples for hobbyists to test, then welcomes our feedback in order to refine his products. And Rick has the nerve to accuse Repashy of having paid advocates. NEWSFLASH Rick, were all advocates because they're quality products and Repashy is a standup honest company that helps the hobby unlike USDARTfrog. We know that you resort to libel and disparage a quality product to make yourself sound educated and important, when in reality you further expose yourself and your business as a fraud.

You couldn't pay me to test USDARTfrog products.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Someone in the previous thread suggested that the reason why USDARTfrog may advertise these frogs as "NO" poison dart frogs is because of the Tennessee state law prohibiting Poisonous Amphibians.

I took it upon myself to inquire with one of the wildlife officials there and can say that this is NOT the case. Dart frogs ARE legal except in a couple cases.

Tennessee is only concerned with Phyllobates terribilis and wild caught frogs. Frogs that are captive bred are completely legal and are of no concern. Why P. terribilis, because of the paper that showed they're still capable of producing some alkaloids, and even then they said they were only really recommending against that species. It was mentioned that long term captives of wild caught origin were probably ok since they loose their toxicity. The defining issue is that the animals have to actually be capable of being injurious to humans. Poisonous must actually define their current state, and since CB frogs are not poisonous they are not subject to the provisions of the law.

Interestingly enough since my wife recently received an interview request for a surgical job in Tennessee, it gave me an opportunity to inquire about the legality of my collection if we move do there.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

More laughs from the Wascher comedy ... (science) ... team:

safedartfrog.com website said:
Newly Purchased
The information in this category will expand over time.


" ...how long do you suggest sweater boxing [bin enclosure] them? I've heard different stories based on age, so I wanted to see your thoughts since they are your frogs. I have a 15 gallon vivarium I was going to use, and I am working on getting springtails for a food source (and fruit flies)."

In the Viv they go! We raise our frogs in groups and the groups get slimmed down to the 2 pair population as they get older. Sure we start in the bin/sweater box but at 3 months our frogs are very large. (That no methylparaben drum we beat on is real.)

With that said, the age is really not the issue, it is size and can they hunt. If they are of a size to athletically move about, hop, and navigate a space then by all means give them the room to roam. A lot of frog sellers ship tiny, fragile frogs, presumably because they would rather make money than care for frogs and that says a lot to us. We care first, then sell! If they tell you to put them in a Sterilite bin or other small enclosure, consider not buying because they are so small and young. Each and every frog we sell can hop, move about easily and hunt. They are ready for a vivarium.

In their new vivarium, it is best to use a feeding station area to start so they can find the "spot" and dine there without much difficulty. You may need to coax them to the feeding area, but I doubt it. They know what that (a feeding station) is because that is what we do here before you get the frogs. They should already be trained to eat at a feeding station, just not familiar with the new digs and where the dining area is located. Of course as flies disperse they get very good at surrounding them, and exercise on their hunts.

Later, when they see you open the lid/door they will come to you. If you put a few flies on your hand and introduce your hand first they will eventually hop into your hand and feed. Then, they will simply hop into your hand. We do it here with our breeders. They seem to like it, because right after, they get fed ...Pavlovian I guess.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Actually encouraging a keeper to pour flies on their hand, then stick the hand into an enclosure in the hopes of having the frogs crawl directly onto them...just a baffling recommendation!
Anyone want to wager a guess as to how soon one of their customers follows their suggestion and becomes seriously ill with Salmonella, Chlamydia, or any number of other potential diseases that amphibians can transmit?
You would think that a family that claims to have a legal background would be a little more concerned about being the target of a lawsuit. Additionally, it really seems like they are marketing to children, which makes this all the more dangerous.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

More laughs from the Wascher comedy ... (science) ... team:
Yep take their "word" for it and throw them into a viv.... not to mention "hand feed them."
No QT, age has nothing to do with QT. Duh!
Next they will sell frog collars and leashes on their site...
Their claims etc. Remind me of South Park.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Yep take their "word" for it and throw them into a viv.... not to mention "hand feed them."
No QT, age has nothing to do with QT. Duh!
Next they will sell frog collars and leashes on their site...
Their claims etc. Remind me of South Park.
Don't forget sweaters... Amphibians are cold blooded so on those cold days they'll appreciate that you cared enough to get them an official DFW turtleneck :rolleyes:
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Not trying to change the subject but are they really starting to hybridize? I'm not sure if I'm clear on what they are doing with designer frogs. And eating out of the hand is both dangerous to the frog and human...not everyone is meticulous about washing hands and could transmit pathogens to frogs, not to mention the other way around. Not a smart move.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Actually encouraging a keeper to pour flies on their hand, then stick the hand into an enclosure in the hopes of having the frogs crawl directly onto them...just a baffling recommendation!
Anyone want to wager a guess as to how soon one of their customers follows their suggestion and becomes seriously ill with Salmonella, Chlamydia, or any number of other potential diseases that amphibians can transmit?
You would think that a family that claims to have a legal background would be a little more concerned about being the target of a lawsuit. Additionally, it really seems like they are marketing to children, which makes this all the more dangerous.
Not to mention the fact that the frogs could catch illness from oils and other nasties on the keepers skin.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

Not to mention the fact that the frogs could catch illness from oils and other nasties on the keepers skin.
I thought about that too, but we are already aware of their lack of concern for the animals. I was hoping that the danger of sickening their customers and facing legal repercussions might make them pull that part of the site.
 

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re: Dartfrog Warehouse / USdartfrog / Safedartfrogs / Designerfrogs / USAfrog /Frogsupply

I thought about that too, but we are already aware of their lack of concern for the animals. I was hoping that the danger of sickening their customers and facing legal repercussions might make them pull that part of the site.
as non-members, can they even see this conversation now that it is in the lounge? I feel really sad for the kid whose entire life is screwed over from catching salmonella from these people's bad advice. if there was something i could do to stop that, i would.
 
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