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Housing 2 vampire crabs and 2 dart frogs in the same 10 gal vivarium

  • This is a terrible idea

    Votes: 59 95.2%
  • It might work

    Votes: 4 6.5%
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Guys

I am going to create a combined dart frog and vampire crab vivarium. It is a 10 Gallon terrarium (not ideal size) I willl be looking to upgrade size in the next 6 months

It will contain 2 Auratus and 2 vampire crabs.

My mind is made up. Unless everyone really thinks this is a terrible idea i am going to try to house them together

Reasons i think it will work

Dart frogs and vampire crabs are kept in identical habitat and identical temperature/humidity range

They do not cohabitate in the wild but the care sheets for the two animals are almost identical.

My dart frog set up already contains a small pool.

The crabs are not nearly large enough to harm the dart frogs

They eat the same foods

Vampire crabs are nocturnal, they will be burrowed in one of my coconut huts during the day and active at night when the forgs are asleep.

Thoughts?
 

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I believe vampire craps are pretty opportunistic when it comes to food. A small sleeping frog might make for a tempting morsel.
 

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I believe vampire craps are pretty opportunistic when it comes to food. A small sleeping frog might make for a tempting morsel.
Even if they weren't viewed as food items, the crabs would probably disturb the frogs all night. Not worth the stress IMO.
 

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10 GALLONS!! the rule of thumb is 10 gallons PER FROG. you are putting 4 creatures in a 10 gallon tank, and you're mixing. If you can't get a bigger tank, then you shouldn't do it at all.
 

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If you came here looking for affirmation for this ill-advised plan, you came to the wrong community. No responsible breeder here will recommend mixing species.

Here's a relevant discussion.

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Please give me some specific reasons. And specific differences in needs of vamps Vs frogs. No one has listed a reason other than "it's just something we don't do"
 

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Please give me some specific reasons. And specific differences in needs of vamps Vs frogs. No one has listed a reason other than "it's just something we don't do"
since you apparently missed them...

I believe vampire craps are pretty opportunistic when it comes to food. A small sleeping frog might make for a tempting morsel.
Even if they weren't viewed as food items, the crabs would probably disturb the frogs all night. Not worth the stress IMO.

Seriously though, similar husbandry requirements is not reason enough to keep them together and has nothing to do with how they would interact. These species do not belong together in a 10 gallon tank.
 

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Two territorial frogs and two also very territorial crabs from opposite corners of the world might have trouble getting along, especially considering a ten gallon is minimalistic for two tinctorius. They will likely compete over resources as well as hiding spots, generally making a stressful situation for you and the animals. For your sake or the animals, please don't try this.
 

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Please give me some specific reasons. And specific differences in needs of vamps Vs frogs. No one has listed a reason other than "it's just something we don't do"
Did you not read the I posted for you? This conversation has already happened several times on this forum. The search feature can be a bit wonky so I figured I'd find you a good discussion on the subject so we don't have to have a drawn out discussion on why you shouldn't do this.

Here's the link again, for your reading pleasure.

Read through that thread, and you'll find advice from some of the most experienced breeders on this forum -- or any other forum for that matter.
 

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Please give me some specific reasons. And specific differences in needs of vamps Vs frogs. No one has listed a reason other than "it's just something we don't do"
Since you want to be spoon-fed the issues that can arise from this particular type of mixed enclosure as opposed to doing your own research and coming up with reasonable conclusions, I'll oblige with suggestions based on my own experiences and information gleaned from those wiser/more experienced than myself . I don't necessarily think it will prevent you from doing what you want, but it may assist some other keepers pondering the same kind of display from making the same mistake.

I am going to create a combined dart frog and vampire crab vivarium. It is a 10 Gallon terrarium (not ideal size) I willl be looking to upgrade size in the next 6 months

It will contain 2 Auratus and 2 vampire crabs.

My mind is made up. Unless everyone really thinks this is a terrible idea i am going to try to house them together

Reasons i think it will work

Dart frogs and vampire crabs are kept in identical habitat and identical temperature/humidity range
What are you basing this on? Dart frogs from where? Vampire crabs from where? There are HUGE variations in environmental conditions within the ranges of Dendrobatids, and likely Geosesarma as well. My crabs have done best cooler than my frogs, I generally keep them 65-70*F.
You mentioned D. auratus as your frog of choice, which locale/morph?

They do not cohabitate in the wild but the care sheets for the two animals are almost identical.
Where are you seeing these identical 'care sheets'? What kind of information is presented?

My dart frog set up already contains a small pool.
Is this the primary reason that you wanted to include the crabs? Because there might be a tiny little niche in your tiny little tank that could possibly support them?

The crabs are not nearly large enough to harm the dart frogs
You didn't answer my question about ever keeping vamp crabs before, and this question baffles me. I've kept two forms of Geosesarma sp. in the past, and they would go after my fingers if they were hungry or agitated. The adults have strong enough pincers to catch and dismember each other, and they would certainly have no problems snagging an auratus (at least long enough to remove a foot or an eye). Additionally, if you had any breeding from either species, the young would certainly prove to be prey items for the other species.

They eat the same foods
Yeah, sort of. The crabs are omnivores, which means they will forage just about any plant or animal based material around them that they consider edible. They will pay particular attention to moving prey, and frequently become more aggressive when it is present. This means that the crabs will be most active and nasty exactly when and where the frogs are being fed.

Vampire crabs are nocturnal, they will be burrowed in one of my coconut huts during the day and active at night when the forgs are asleep.
Can't say that I've seen much of a difference in activity level between when lights are on or off. They will be out when they want to, and they will occupy the space they feel most comfortable. I doubt that it will be inside a coconut hut, unless there is nothing more suitable in the viv.
The crabs will need as much shoreline space as you can provide, with multiple, deep inset burrows along, but not under the water. The closer their quarters, the more often you will lose individuals.

Thoughts?
Any more specific questions? Or answers to mine?
 

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10 GALLONS!! the rule of thumb is 10 gallons PER FROG..
DOGMA!!! You might want to read the discussions on this as anything set as volume/animal is a problem.

example, a one inch by one inch by 16 feet enclosure is close to ten gallons but it is not a suitable space for any frog .....

some comments

Ed
 

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You didn't answer my question about ever keeping vamp crabs before, and this question baffles me. I've kept two forms of Geosesarma sp. in the past, and they would go after my fingers if they were hungry or agitated. The adults have strong enough pincers to catch and dismember each other, and they would certainly have no problems snagging an auratus (at least long enough to remove a foot or an eye). Additionally, if you had any breeding from either species, the young would certainly prove to be prey items for the other species.
While anecdotal, I've seen geosarma capture adult crickets with minimal effort, it is not beyond reason that they will capture and eat the frogs.

some comments

Ed
 

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HippieXXScum,

If you haven't already watched this video, please do so. While you watch it, imagine that $.03 cricket is a $40 frog.
Better yet, imagine that it's a frog that someone spent two months raising up from a tadpole, the another probable 3 months tending to it almost daily, only to watch almost 6 months of work go down the tubes because someone is too ignorant or stubborn to learn basic husbandry. -_- . Sorry for my lack if subtlety and tact here...
 

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I wouldn't be sorry.
A lot less time would be wasted and the world would be much further along if people just spoke the simple truth. Can't always pat everyone on the fanny and tell 'em good job. Everyone has asinine ideas from time to time. No harm in telling someone when they're being a jackwagon. If they can't handle it, they shouldn't have asked. Especially when you can tell they already had an idea that it might not be a good idea and had to ask in the first place.
Then act silly when you don't give them the answer they were hoping for.
Yeah, I wouldn't apologize. The sky is blue, water is wet, sometimes people are stubborn and ignorant. I'm not sorry about it.
 

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I wouldn't be sorry.
A lot less time would be wasted and the world would be much further along if people just spoke the simple truth. Can't always pat everyone on the fanny and tell 'em good job. Everyone has asinine ideas from time to time. No harm in telling someone when they're being a jackwagon. If they can't handle it, they shouldn't have asked. Especially when you can tell they already had an idea that it might not be a good idea and had to ask in the first place.
Then act silly when you don't give them the answer they were hoping for.
Yeah, I wouldn't apologize. The sky is blue, water is wet, sometimes people are stubborn and ignorant. I'm not sorry about it.
I don`t know who you are but that was the most kick ass post I have ever read
 
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