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204K views 2K replies 144 participants last post by  carola1155 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hello fellow froggers!

[redacted]
DartFrogWarehouse.com

[redacted]

Please check out our site– we have about 2,000 beautiful, healthy frogs... [redacted]!

[redacted]

Thank you very much!

Dillon Wascher
 
#38 ·
Good points Ed. I know nothing when it comes to trademarks and patents and such, but I do know my animals! Labeling any animal as safe is asking for a lawsuit at some point or another. Could you say a puppy is safe? In reality, no. It could scratch you. This is a minor example and it would be a stupid thing to get a lawsuit for, but hopefully you get my point.
 
#41 ·
That is a def fair and valid point. And you are correct in saying someone will fill that demand. I can appreciate that. However, it just seems like that is the only thing they are doing. Especially if they are doing market research etc. That in NO way contributes to the hobby. It contributes to the pet trade. Which leads to more people buying frogs on impulse, placing them in critter keepers etc. Which I know is going to happen anyways, but to see a focus on it, is upsetting. Just seems like that is the target audience. The frogs look just fine and I have heard from a couple that bought frogs from them, they were quality animals. Just the "presentation" of themselves leaves little to be desired. It honestly was similar to the launch of DFC in the way it is packaged for us to perceive. And that is disappointing.
 
#44 ·
. Just the "presentation" of themselves leaves little to be desired. It honestly was similar to the launch of DFC in the way it is packaged for us to perceive. And that is disappointing.
Glad I wasnt the only one that saw that similarity. It's a bit of a disappointment when folks seem to look at fogging with dollar signs in their eyes.
 
#42 ·
Dillon, do you have a wholesale price list? If not and these prices are your wholesale, then you will have difficulty selling them to retailers if you are offering them for the same price to the general public.

Also, offering and guaranteeing shipping during any weather is irresponsible if you care about the animals. FedEx isn't always on time especially during a snow or ice storm, hurricane, Christmas shipping time, etc. it is not worth the risk.
 
#45 ·
Hi Jeremy, We truly enjoy what you say. These prices are for a limited time. I thought we said that in our post, but maybe not so well. We wanted to get them to our board friends first as a Grand Opening special.

I had to respond because we truly do value you and everyone here!

Rick
 
#46 ·
To All,

We honestly thought you, as our friends and fellow froggers would have taken this as a GREAT opportunity to buy some excellent frogs at excellent prices for a limited time. Some have and thank you! How could we not open this to you first? We bought our breeding stock from many of you! The public won't see our site for awhile because of the search engine listings take time. We are pretty much invisible to the rest of the world, and just opened this to you. BTW, our multi-store potential client is NOT a pet store, they specialize in educational items, and a big win for all of us if it goes. We retain the upscale nature of these beauties.

Have a great day and please consider our current prices a great resource for you, and our way of saying thanks! An enemy does not offer grand opening prices like that any time.

Rick
 
#48 ·
So USA Frog and FrogZoo are you. You say on your home page that, "Their pedigrees are known and of the high regard in the hobby" (copied and pasted, the grammatical error is yours). I was expecting where it says, "Breeding Stock" on the individual frog pages that you would have put some pedigree information instead of telling us the parents belong to you. The source of your original breeding stock would have been more helpful to me and supported what you said on your home page.
When I looked at it the first time, I thought, they say that they have respected pedigrees, but I have not heard of the group from whom they purchased all their frogs. It threw up a big red flag for me. Now that I know that you are USA Frogs and Frog Zoo it makes more sense, but I already assumed that the parents were yours. I'm assuming you wrote that in to show people you weren't just flipping frogs bred by someone else, but you can say that once on the home page and be done with it. I would rather see the origin of your breeding stock on the individual frog pages.
Now, I don't know of any other website that reveals the origin of their stock, but since you claim on your site that your pedigrees are highly respected, you should probably back it up.
 
#50 ·
Hope you did a market study on how to move that many frogs in an already oversaturated supply market. The only way I see would be to get chain stores to carry them, but I've worked at Petco and IMO darts would not last long there because the setups are not designed for darts and the employees have high turnover rates and therefore don't know how to care for many of the herps they currently sell.

If you can successfully expand the demand for darts in a constructive way, kudos to you.
 
#57 ·
A lot of this has been said so I apologize, I just really feel strongly about this subject (clearly not the only one).
Very impressed with all this, and you are taking the standard DB interrogation very well. I really would love to see you guys succeed, but please continue to listen to some of these guys. These are species that most of us would consider easy to care for. When compared to other animals (in hobbies or the pet trade) that are marketed in similar ways however, they take a lot more to keep up with CORRECT husbandry. I am sure you will all agree.

Definitely not accusing here, but the vast majority who like the idea of dart frogs in their house will run scared the instant you mention cultures, live plants, tank cycling, fecal testing, etc. Education on this fact needs to come first, and is the basis for why there is a dry scientific side to this hobby. Many of these are frogs from lines that were smuggled out of their country of origin, often illegally, and often from populations that are under pressure in the wild. This is not info to be hidden, that does nobody any favors. To distance these frogs frogs from where they came from and their story is risky business and will alienate the hobby very quickly. The marketing tactics you have chosen are doing just that.

People are drawn to these frogs for their colors, but the biology and population dynamics behind them are what lead people to keep these animals at home. Someone who is not concerned with those aspects will more than likely not enjoy caring for these frogs for any length of time. I understand how a business is run, but transparency is key when talking about live animals with high standards of care.

You guys clearly have the heart and the knowhow, if you get the hobby on your side this could really be great. But if you market these frogs like leopard geckos, you will crash and burn.
 
#60 ·
I like the changes you have made to your home page.

If I could make one more suggestion. I know you probably put a lot of thought into your age classification system and are very proud of it, but when I am shopping for frogs, I shop for a type(species or morph) of frog. I don't shop for a frog of a certain age. My suggestion would be to keep your three main catalog pages (auratus, tincs and misc), but when I go to those pages I would like to see pictures of the various species/morphs of those frogs. When I click on the frog then take me to a page that has a pull-down menu that allows me to select the age of the frogs.

There are some frogs that I might have no idea you offered because you only have them on your Q4 page and I didn't happen to look there. If you have a pic on one of your 3 main pages, then I know exactly what you have and then I can figure out what stage of development I want.
 
#61 ·
Just as any example.

You have a couple beautiful pictures of your 2 E. anthonyi morphs, but you don't have them on your "others" page in your examples pictures. You don't have them in your Q4s. You have them listed in the Q2 and Q3 section in the pull-down menus, but even then I would have to know what a zarayunga or santa isabella was before I would select it to even see the great picture. You need to get those pics out where people can see it as say, "what is that, I need that".
 
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#65 ·
Hey guys, I'm trying to keep an open mind here but giving false info to make your frogs look like the deal of the century is not acceptable, IMO. Seriously, if you make an honest business out if it you will be much better off. Don't try to fool the frog community. We've been around the block and back and some of us are professional breeders and some are professional herpetologists. Don't try to fool us; it won't work. Really.
 
#63 · (Edited)
I'm just gonna say it without going into a detailed tirade ...

Your excuse that you are trying to educate the masses is just that ... a convenient excuse.

Let's just call it what it is ... A quick cash grab.

I can't speak for everyone, (but i can guarantee there are many others who feel the same), the simple fact that you did what you did, whether you've changed certain things or not, IMO is a slap in the face to everything the hobby stands for & the fact that you did not take that into consideration BEFORE you did it speaks volumes on where your true loyalties lie ... to your bank account.

End Rant.
 
#67 ·
I would have to agree with Gamble and the rest...
Just my personal feelings. I raise probably 1/4 of what my collection of frogs is capable of, and that is with cycling them down every year.and some species like my Hawaiian aurtatus I have not bred in several years.

As of last year I started raising a bit more. I keep having this war with myself that by producing more of the frogs that new people generally want ..leucs, tincs, etc and I sell to more to pet stores and other froggers that flip.. I may, in some small way, keep those retailers from ordering from wild caught list. I must be smoking something because I realizie that the classic frogs and even the more rare species ..all the prices have dropped by quite a bit and it seems that the demand for wild caught is still there In fact I have been blown away by some of the low prices offered in the DB classifieds.

So a year ago I would have not thought it is such a bad thing for a large PDF company to sell cheap to retailers and whoever wants cheap frogs. Now I just think it just hurts the hobbyists and businesses that have paid their dues and does absolutely nothing for conservation.
 
#73 ·
Holy cow man that's an impressive business plan there. I though about doing something similar but dart frogs is such a niche hobby I didn't take the risk. I like how you used the term safe I didn't think that the reason they wasn't as popular did have something to do with ignorance....duh!! To be considered a business is very strict business in the hobby world......Now some of the advertisement ploys were bold, for the random newbie retail paying customer they were great and I think would work untill they got into clubs,forums,etc...Sucks don't it... I wish I had a frog loving family to support me I would surely have a massive collection. All the luck to you, and I would love to talk business one day I'm more on the chameleon world then the darts these days but I envy your endeavor and any advice could help me in mine.
 
#86 ·
Dillon seems like a nice enough kid (and I don't say that in a negative way) - but why the need to redefine *everything* that our hobby has fairly well defined?

I just don't see the need. Seems like it's more to differentiate themselves than to y'know, work with us.

The fact that everything is getting trademarked (gotta have different terms than the mundane's to trademark ... ) necessitates it.

I'd wish him much more success if he grew the business organically rather than trying to go from 1-100 mph in 6 seconds flat.

s
 
#94 ·
The presentation and interest is definitely overly commercial, but that is business for you. Their target market also doesn't seem to be hobbyists but the causal keeper.

Which I don't necessarily view as a bad thing. Being that is what most pet stores do and here we know the frogs are captive bred and not imported legally or illegally.
 
#98 ·
When you make a statement like this, "the only source of SAFE™ dart frogs and tadpoles", I don't care what you CLAIM it means. You are deliberately trying to mislead the public. You are very carefully dancing around wordplay and legality (and good GOD, did you miss on the legality end of things!). You throw EVERYBODY under the bus when you do this.
That statement is a knife in the back of the entire hobby.
 
#102 ·
The guy claims he works professionally in trademark law and I certainly don't know enough about the topic to disagree with his arguments. But from a marketing perspective, it seems like a really ingenious idea.

though if you are financially involved in producing frogs for any level of commercial sales, I can understand why people would not like it.
 
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