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So if a pair of young retics, 1-2 years old, laid eggs very regularly over a period of 6-12 months but none of which survived what might be going on? Is it a food issue? Environmental issue? Animal issue?

This questions is about some frogs I'm interested in. They come from a very reputable person, and I've had this problem (a young pair of fants)once and that pair eventually started producing.

I'm wondering should I just get froglets of this pair which is obviously a pair but has the egg issues. Breeding isn't essential in my collection, but I really enjoy the husbandry & breeding portion of keeping these frogs, so it is important to have the ability to breed if possible.

Thanks in advance.
 

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Joe,

I don't mind if you use our name or the info we gave you. I have been trying to figure out this issue for some time.

Let me give some additional background on the frogs:

==> I purchased 2 proven breeding pairs from this breeder. 1 pair of Retics, SSA line (Sean Stewart A line) and a pair of imitators (from Adam Butt are 1 to 2 years old).
==> Since having the frogs, it took a couple months before both pair began to lay, and since they have begun I have not had any viable eggs.
==> The diet I feed my frogs is fruit fly heavy with occasional springtails and pinhead crickets. The previous owner fed termites, ffs, and springtails.
==> The imitator eggs are now beginning to develop, but I still do not have any tadpoles. Every clutch is a little better than the one before.
==> I have the tank set up almost exactly like the other pair of retics I have which are producing regularly. The 2nd pair (from Patrick) has over a 95% fertility/hatch rate. The previous owner of the retics fed mostly pinheads.
==> The 2nd pair of retics has produced a large number of offspring which a number of people have bred successfully once the frogs are 6-8 months old.

In conclusion: personally, I think this issue might be tied to differences in animal husbandry - food and a possible change in environment. An animal issue isn't out of the question.

Melis


Joe Baginski said:
So if a pair of young retics, 1-2 years old, laid eggs very regularly over a period of 6-12 months but none of which survived what might be going on? Is it a food issue? Environmental issue? Animal issue?

This questions is about some frogs I'm interested in. They come from a very reputable person, and I've had this problem (a young pair of fants)once and that pair eventually started producing.

I'm wondering should I just get froglets of this pair which is obviously a pair but has the egg issues. Breeding isn't essential in my collection, but I really enjoy the husbandry & breeding portion of keeping these frogs, so it is important to have the ability to breed if possible.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Joe,

I have two sets of retics out of the 2nd QC pair that Melissa is refering to... The first pair which is a bit older maybe 8 months old started produceing a couple of weeks ago. Infact I pulled three eggs out last night all of which are good, I also have three eggs developing about to hatch out and one tad already. Considering this set I pulled out last night is only their 5 or 6th clutch of eggs Im extremely pleased. The second set of retics is a couple of months younger than my #1 pair and the male is calling like crazy, I expect them to be breeding sometime in the near future as well.

Agree with Melissa that its probablly tied to environment and food.

Matt
 

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IMO - it can be a hundred different things from food, to vitamins to frequency of eggs laid and the list goes on. I've worked with retics for some time now and have had periods where they lay clutches that just go bad. Then without knowingly changing anything they start laying good clutches again. That being said, start with diet and vitamins. Vitamins can go bad if they sit for long periods. If they are clutching more than twice a month you will probably see problems. If you have multiple animals try switching males or if you have the tank size > 10g to be safe, add another male. Good luck.
 

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I can see it being a vitamin issue left over from the previous owner. With the size of our collection we don't have a problem using the vitamin powder up before it loses it's punch.

The retics were sold to us as proven breeders. The person who sold them to us said that he had viable froglets from them. We have all the breeding data for them and they are laying regularly. We haven't even checked their cage for eggs though in the last few weeks. Who knows maybe they have a few tads in there :lol:

Then again, maybe they just don't like the color of the wall behind their tank. You never know......
 

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Do the eggs start developing at all? Have you ever had any tads? If so maybe your doing something wrong, in the incubation of these eggs. How are you keeping them? Maybe i misunderstand the problem, but i also have QC retics, and they laid fertile from the 1st clutch i found. I have lost some eggs to poor rearing on my part, but most survive to tads. I think you could try a more sterile incubation methods with fresh water daily, all this while being carefull not to disturb the eggs at all. I dont like using the blue stuff on eggs, i just try to keep all the dishes clean. Have you tried oak leaves, in with the eggs.
 

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Jace,

You might want to reread the post. None of the eggs are good. They go bad immediately.

Melis

Jace King said:
Do the eggs start developing at all? Have you ever had any tads? If so maybe your doing something wrong, in the incubation of these eggs. How are you keeping them? Maybe i misunderstand the problem, but i also have QC retics, and they laid fertile from the 1st clutch i found. I have lost some eggs to poor rearing on my part, but most survive to tads. I think you could try a more sterile incubation methods with fresh water daily, all this while being carefull not to disturb the eggs at all. I dont like using the blue stuff on eggs, i just try to keep all the dishes clean. Have you tried oak leaves, in with the eggs.
 

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Immediately, thats not good. He better hope time sorts this out, cause I dont see what he could be doing wrong other than egg rearing. Vitamin, and calcium supplementation are pretty straightforward in my book and you got your retics fully grown and breeding all that should be in place. If the retics were not healthy you would notice, cause its such a small frog just a week or to of bad diet would be very noticable. I highly doubt diet is the problem. Of course now i must put in my disclaimer that i am the least scientific frogger in the world. I would not be able to diagnose any problems without help.
 

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Jace,

The frogs he is referring to are some frogs he is thinking of getting from us. They are the 2nd pair of retics we picked up and are not related to our primary pair. Since you have been to our house, they are on the same shelf as the other pair of retics and the lamasi - and are actually in between the 2 tanks.

The frogs are fat, healthy, are laying regularly and very active. The issue: even though the eggs are plentiful and appear good initially, they do not develop.

They are fed the same diet as our other pair which have a 95%+ development rate. Housed in a similar cage. On the same light schedule, etc. The tanks are sitting side by side on a rack.

I have no doubt these frogs will begin to lay viable eggs in the future, but the question is why are the ones now going bad immediately?

Melis






Jace King said:
Immediately, thats not good. He better hope time sorts this out, cause I dont see what he could be doing wrong other than egg rearing. Vitamin, and calcium supplementation are pretty straightforward in my book and you got your retics fully grown and breeding all that should be in place. If the retics were not healthy you would notice, cause its such a small frog just a week or to of bad diet would be very noticable. I highly doubt diet is the problem. Of course now i must put in my disclaimer that i am the least scientific frogger in the world. I would not be able to diagnose any problems without help.
 

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This may sound stupid but you know how some women cant get pregnant or they just develope bad eggs so they never get pregnant, you think this is happening with the pair as well.
 

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what about mixing the pairs and see if the problem is with one of the frogs being infertile? Maybe your guy is shooting blanks or your their is a problem with the females eggs.

Also, what about toxins in anything in the tank (wood, cleaning stuff, etc.). I know in humans, infertility can sometimes be the only symptom of some kind of toxins.
 

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I wouldn't mix the two pairs because the one is doing so well I wouldn't want to disturb them. We were told that they have produced viable froglets in the past.

The tank was brand new, cleaned as we normally clean our new tanks, with the same products we use in most of our tanks. So I don't think there should be any toxins in there that would affect them. We don't use any spray cleaning supplies even near the frog room and are very cautious about fumes near/in the frog room so that shouldn't be an issue.

The two things I can think of different in their tank vs our other pair are a few brazil nut pods and the tank was built with leca rather than gravel. The tank for the other pair came set up from the person we purchased the pair from. That pair has been laying good eggs since the day after they arrived. We haven't changed the cage other than to trim plants. The brazil nut pods were purchased from a reputable supplier and rinsed before being placed in the cage.
 
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