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Discussion Starter #1
Hello Uk Members-

Im very new here because im mainly only into caudates in the amphibian hobby but there was a guy who posted an ad on the forums for caudates listing he had some dart frogs including mysteriousus which judging from his prices, 139 eruo or something must be a rare find. http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/2 ... 1087143182 I figure if someone would want to see the link it would be you the dart frog hobbyists who could care for them!.


Not trying to tie caudata.org to this site in any way, just thought you dudes might be interested in some rare dendrobates.
 

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rmelancon said:
It is my understanding that they are not legal anywhere, US or otherwise. They are illegal because CITES has never issued export permits for d. mysteriosus. CITES hasn't issued permits because the habit where they reside is extremely small and very threatened.
See, to me, CITES should issue permits now so that a strong CB population can be developed so that the species doesn't just die off.

But CITES doesn't care what i think.
 

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Yeah, I think they are illegal everywhere, cause the country of origin never allowed for them to be exported... so all that are out there are illegal. They are still considered property of their native country, and are also on CITES... so that makes things more complicated. But, from what I have heard USF&W is looking for any in the US, but there is no organization (from what I have heard) looking for them outside of the US... so they can still be bred and sold there.

I also think CITES does more harm then good in some cases, but that is because it is outdated and wasn't really written for these kinds of animals and situations. Hopefully there will be a change in this... but it has to be pushed for, and I am not too sure who will want to take on that task (especially with PETA infiltrating the ranks of USF&W and so on).
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Hi,

it seems there few specimens legally imported in Europe after 2000. but sure it's not enough for all the available frogs at this moment in the froghobby :?
 

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If there are a couple legaly imported that is great, and they should become pretty available in Europe then in a couple years. I say this, only cause I hear they are very easy to breed... like tincs and auratus. Also, the few legal ones could make all the others legal as well... just have to say they are either from that legal shipment, or young from the original shipment lol. I really hope they can come in through the INIBICO PROJECT to the US. It would be great to see some true "farmed" frogs come in to supply our hobby, instead of WC's taken from the wild breeding populations.
 

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According to Sean Steward no D. mysterious have ever been taken from the wild legally, since neither cities nor the peruvian government has ever given the permits, for exportation, breed, or collecting. Now with that said I have heard of people with "CITIES" papers for their D. mysterious but that is very sceptical since none have ever been given out.

As to the point about, why not go out and collect a bunch and give them to dart frog breeders to produce in captivity is very good idea just currently impossible to make into a reality. Think about the number of frogs that will die en route to the country that is importing them. That would be a loss of some frogs that might have otherwise produced more babies in the wild and continued the species. Besides that collecting the specimens would require that some habitat destruction, wether on purpose or not. Also the collection would be lower the amount of genes of a wild population that is barely large enough to support itself.


Danny
 

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Sure hasn't stopped the poachers (according to Rainier).

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Greenstar said:
... Besides that collecting the specimens would require that some habitat destruction, wether on purpose or not. Also the collection would be lower the amount of genes of a wild population that is barely large enough to support itself.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Dendrobates galactonotus all illegal? I thought i read that they were kinda smuggled into europe and then bred and imported into the US?
 

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I think you (greenstar) are saying the same thing as I am. That I have never heard of any legal importations of these, as the government never allowed them out of the country.

I do however think taking some for a CB program is a necessary step with a lot of endangered animals (take note of CB programs for endangered animals in the US: Cali. Condors, Black Footed Ferrets, etc), especially when it won't be a hard task to breed them. It shouldn't be a problem to get offspring from the collected frogs shortly after collection... its not like they'd be at sqaure one, as there is a lot of info about breeding darts. Hell, they don't have to be exported at all! They can be bred in Peru, like the INIBICO project is doing. Then these offspring could be added back to the wild populations, and some could also be sent out to hobbiest all over the world. This money would inturn support the farming, promote conservation, and also lower the need for WC animals (thus decreasing the amount of poachers). All sounds like a good cause and plan to me.
 

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Beriss said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Dendrobates galactonotus all illegal? I thought i read that they were kinda smuggled into europe and then bred and imported into the US?
A lot of animals in the herp hobby are like that. The first bearded dragons appeared in the pet trade AFTER Australia had closed down all exports, for instance.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
I think there is the same problem with all tinctorius morph come from French Guyana.. because in french guyana, exports of reptiles and amphibians are strictly forbidden... so it's very strange to find F1 frogs in the hobby
 
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