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Crossbreeds, update

19883 Views 111 Replies 49 Participants Last post by  Ed
This is an update for some of my older cross breeds reaching sexual maturity. i currently have 6 in this stage.

first let me say that i hope there is no bashing on this post for the simple reason that these frogs have been listed on here a few times before and most of the ppl who look at these threads should understand my reason for these frogs. and its not for profit, but for curiosity and further knowledge on the tintorius morph. This thread was not to be an argument

What i have noticed is that, most of the frogs have been losing alot of the yellow and been replacing it with black. there are still a couple that have kept the full yellow head and alot on the sides. These ones happen to be most striking to me. I have also noticed their bellies brightening up a bit and looking really cool. so far the offspring seem to be male heavy. i am pretty sure i have a couple females, but the males toepads are really easy to see on these guys. I'm actually happy that this cross breed was produced, the reason being that i think its a beautiful morph, and not only that i think they are just beautiful creatures in general. These frogs are still in a 15 gallon, but i think since they have been together for so long they are still getting along, i plan on housing these frogs in the 150 gallon where they were born. i should be able to house quite a few of these puppys in there.

any way i took some pics today here they are.

sorry about all the pics i tried getting a good mix, heavy yellow/ mostly black, bellys, toes, and what not


I'll get some pics of my azureus subs as well, ive got 8 right now and im pretty sure they are almost ready for some sexing, and ive got 7 azureus froglets, and still a ton of tads
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While I do see many excellent points in your post (the possibility of new hobbyists deciding to undertake such experiments without the same principles that Troy holds being one of them) I also do not agree that nothing was learned and that Troy is only out for a "dramatic" response. While I have no interest or intentions of producing hybrids (of PDFs or anything else for that matter) I did find the pattern displayed in these cross breeds intriguing. They bear similar marking to the Nouragues tincs on Dendrobates tinctorius morphguide and are somewhat similar to Tafelberg and obviously Alanis. If anything was gained from this it was certainly a little insight into which naturally occurring PDF morphs may have been the originals.
I could speculate that Azureus may have been one of the original morphs of dart frog, and more widely dispersed than it is currently, that breed with the populations of Matecho, or Citronella, or Regina, giving us some of the Cobalts that have a broader color spectrum. Of course I'm being a bit too specific in my hypothetical statement but my point was that he did prove Alanis to have many dominant pattern traits over citronella. Also the offspring are rather consistent in color and pattern unlike many times when dogs are crossbreed and you can have a litter of 5 with all of them looking entirely different.
Anyway, I'd like to close by saying that I am in no way supporting hybridization, but I do commend Troy on his stalwart position on keeping these frogs in his own hands or none at all. (There are many ways of dispatching small animals as humanely as possible, that are commonly practiced by snake keepers, if you do ever come into those unfortunate circumstances Troy.) I also appreciate that he has the courage to share his findings. Yes many people (newcomer or not) are guilty of mixing species but I think that if a person has it in their head to crossbreed then they'll do it whether they see Troys post or not. I think that posts like this may even be good for the hobby in the way that newcomers are shown a hybrid and then they get to read the negatives and see what a tongue lashing they'd get if they ever explored that avenue themselves. I know I wouldn't wanna take that kind of heat...

*EDIT* Post deleted. I don't wanna disrespect that :). Because of this some of my statements may seem out of place but whatever :p.
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I don't remember the thread but Ed made a very good post about poor parenting in captive dart frogs caused by the false parenting we provide that allows for the bloodlines to continue. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I thought I'd mention it as one possible weak link in the preservation aspect of the hobby. Sorry to get off topic!

On the subject of newbies to the hobby being swayed into wanting hybrids... One small solace is that hybrids are not readily available. I would also hope that, if the time were to come where captive darts were being released back into the wild, only well known, reputable, and/or long established dart frog breeders would be trusted to have pure lines. I'm not saying that the frogs of small, private breeders and enthusiasts have poor genes and what not... I just think that, while even those measures wouldn't be fool proof, it would be a "safer" bet. Of course the fact that hybrids are not more common than pure lines won't stop uneducated people from stumbling across them, but I think that it's up to those dedicated to maintaining true lines to scrutinize when it comes to finding a trustworthy breeder to buy from.
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