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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Which would you reccomend using and why? For those of you who use either one I would like your opinions.


This is my delema. I went to petco to ask about canister filters for my custom viv I am building and was told I would be wasting my money. I would only have at the most 10 gallons of water in the viv at any given time but would be closer to 5. I want to have an extenal filer or pump that will be able to suck or pull the water from the bottom to the topp of waterfall which is going to be about 3 feet high from the water in false bottom. The lady at petco said that with an external canister filter I would end up burning up the pump to quickley because of the amount of water in my viv. The least rated CF was about 240gph and she said they are designed to push this or you will burn pump up. I had remarked about using a ball vavle to ruduce this by either reduce the intake or the output. She said if you reduce the intake then you will cause it to burn out by running dry. If you reduce the output you end up putting to much back presure on the pump which will cause it to overheat and burn up.

This realy has me thinking of my design which I need to get figuired out before I can go anyfather on my custom viv. Thanks again for the help.

Mike P.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Maybe I'm missing something... but does it matter wether there are 10 or 100 gallons in the vivarium? as long as there is enough water to fill the canister filter? If the filter does 240 gph, whats the difference between doing the same 10 gallons 24 times vs 100 gallons 2.4 times? as long as you have a certain minimum amount of water I would think the pump/filter would be fine. I just think you could go witht eh smallest one you can find.


-Tad
 

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Mike,

Give us some more information on your tank.

Do you already have it?
What size tank is it or what size are you looking to set up?
Will it be a false bottom set up or are you going to separate the land and water sections?

I would think a canister filter is going to provide you with more options, but an overflow and sump will be even better.

Here's a link to some construction pictures of how I set up my paludarium - http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.ph ... 48&cat=500 - It might give you some ideas.

Tim
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Tim

This is the custom plywood tank that is descrbed in the member's frogs and vivariums forum. It is a custom plywood vivarium and the inside demsions are 24in deep by 24in wide by about 37in tall. It is going to be a flase bottom set-up with the bottom 7in or 8in beign the false bottom. If I where to use a canister filter then I can mount on the plywood behind the viv. If I where to use a powerhead I can mout in the hood area or behind the viv like the canster filter. here is a pic of the overview of what is accomplished so far.



Tad

I am going to have a waterfall fall and stream running to a small water feature. The problem with having a higher rated gph canister filter is I dont want to create a rushing white water rapid waterfall that could possibly be harmfull to frogs. At the same time, I need to have enough power to get the water up to the height of the waterfall and not have it just trickle like a drip.


If I where to go with a canister filter, It would probably be the Fluval 104. If I where to go with a power head, It would probably be the Aquaclear 402 made for up to 50 gallon aquariums. Cant remeber how much each one pumps but they are in the 130 to 175 gph range which is what I believe i will need. Thanks again for all the help and if you have anymore questions feel free to ask away.

Mike P.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think if you made the waterfall "wide" enough and diffused it over some gravel/rocks. I donno 150 gph is like 2.5gallons a minute? If you take a gallon jug of water and dump it whats the stream like? and how long does it take to empty it? I'm thinking that would be a decent water fall, not too strong? I'm just guessing here.


-Tad
 

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Mike,

If I were you I would drill the bottom and set in a bulkhead and overflow, drain it into a sump and pump it back to your waterfall from the sump.

When I originally set up my tank I was going with just a canister filter.
The biggest issue it created was with water level. There was no way to control the water level, it needed constant maintenance.
The other issue was with head pressure for the pump. The canister filter works via a siphon, there for the canister must be below the water level of the tank. But if I placed the canister in the floor of the tank stand I wasn't able to get the water flow I wanted.

The advantages you get with a sump are many.
You can maintain a constant water level with the over flow. Which will maintain a constant moisture level for the plants.
You can pump the water from the sump to a series of valves. One valve to control the water fall, one could be plumbed to some "rain" bars, you could create a drip wall, I would even have one just return to the sump to help control water pressure going to the water fall.
You could use the sump for mechanical, chemical and biological filtration.
You could use the sump to house an aquarium heater, which would help to maintain a constant temperature in the vivarium.
You could run a misting system out of the sump.
You could do water changes in the sump.

I started out with a canister filter and had maintenance issues, once I switched to a sump it made the maintenance much easier and provided a host of improvements.

JMHO,
Tim
 

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Mike,
I use a zoo med 501 in my trivittatus tank. I only have 3 gallons of water in a 40 gallon tank and is works fine for the water fall and pond. The flow is 79 gallons per hour, so it is perfect. My only concern with using one in yours the height of your viv.
I've used power heads before one ran for 3 years without a hitch, but a had problems with another one.
Ed
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Tad,

Keep an eye on those Rio pumps...they are well known in the Reefing community for a high failure rate. I personaly had 3 smoke out on me, one Rio 2100, and 2 - Rio 3100's. the Rio 3100's were return pumps on my sump...when those went it wasnt pretty. If the rio's blow in a sump they will oil slick the tank and kill the inhabitants. Run a search on Reef Central and you'll see what im talking about.

Just keep an eye on it and make sure you clean it often, or get a Mag or Maxijet pump.

Matt
 

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I agree on not using the Rio pumps. I have a small water garden and used a rio 3100 to run a little water feature in it, not for the primary filtration unit so I figured there would be little strain on the unit. The first one burned up after about a month, I got it replaced for free by the place that sold it, and the replacement lasted for about 6 months. The smallest bits of debis, plant roots, ect seem to be able to foul them and burn out the unit.
Ed
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Dude, i have the same dillema! I want to do a paluadarium in a 55 with like a good portion of it with tetras and stuff and was thinking a canister filter would be the best, however this is making me think twice. How would u use the sump for filtration? if i used a sump would i need to buy an expensive canister filter or could i just use like a regular pump? Also what sort of pump would have a rigid tube? All the ones i have seen haev flex tubing.
 

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furizzl said:
Dude, i have the same dillema! I want to do a paluadarium in a 55 with like a good portion of it with tetras and stuff and was thinking a canister filter would be the best, however this is making me think twice. How would u use the sump for filtration? if i used a sump would i need to buy an expensive canister filter or could i just use like a regular pump? Also what sort of pump would have a rigid tube? All the ones i have seen haev flex tubing.
furizzl,

If you used a sump, you could make your own filter box. I run a Mag #5 pump for over two years without any issues. Here's a link to some pictures of how I set it up - http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.php

Tim
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Easiest way to build a sump filter is to take a ten gallan and divide it into 3 or 4 compartments. When you dived the tank water goes into one end and out the other. When you set up the dividers you alternate leaving space at the bottom to the topp about 2 inches. then place differnt media in each spot. I have seen tis showed on another DIY site but cant find it currently.

Mike P.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So i would have to drill for a bulkhead right?

Could i just have 2 pumps? one that pumped the water out into the sump and then another at the opp. end that would suck the water through the filter and put it back into the tank.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You would only need to drill bottom of the tank for the drain. and you dont need a pump to pump water into sump. When you set it up you will have a false bottom that could hold a maximun of lets say 5 or 6 inches of water. When you drill for pvc pipe you put the top of it 1 or 1.5 inches belwo the bottom of false bottom say 3.5 or 4.5 inches. You will always have that much water in the false bottom. If you are pumping water from sump back into false bottom could always run that up the back of tank then back down. Sorry but I am not good at drawing pics like some people. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. If not I will try to find the web site that shows all this.

Mike P.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I understand but im trying to get around drilling cuz i really dont want to buy a special bit and then try to drill.
 
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