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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone. I’m new to the hobby and have been lurking the threads for some time now in preparation for owning PDFs. I know most people feed FFs, but I was wondering if it’s possible to primarily feed a variety of springtails and isopods, along with flour beetle larvae and XS Phoenix worm larvae? FF culturing seems really involved, and if I can get multiple spring and iso cultures booming, then it seems a bit easier. Any springs and isos that “escape” feeding can help maintain the viv. The flour beetles seem super easy to culture. And Phoenix worms seem like a great, well-balanced food. What are people’s thoughts on this? I’ve watched some youtubers who supplement feedings with springs and isos. From what I’ve read, FFs are pretty nutrition deficient, can’t be gutloaded. Obviously, springs would be similar nutritionally, but dwarf isos *might* have more calcium and can sort of be gut loaded with fruits and veg? Perhaps I’m just trying to justify not culturing FFs since I’d have to make a culture every week. I could supplement with some store bought FFs every month or so, but was wondering if it’s possible to primarily feed springtails and isopods, along with beetles and Phoenix worms (black soldier fly larvae)?
 

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That all sounds way, way, way more complicated than culturing fruit flies :) I see what you are trying to avoid, but I think trying to introduce all of that other stuff is a lot bigger hassle than doing flies primarily and augmenting with the other stuff. The only thing I didn't see considered in your plan is dusting supplements. That is the easiest (and best, to my knowledge) way to make sure you are balancing nutrients properly. The other thing that I would say about some alternative sources of food for darts is that they can be very fatty and dart frogs tend to be obese even when fed primarily with fruit flies, which aren't especially fatty foods. Termites, for instance, are not a very good primary food source for this reason. Anyway, I would take another look at culturing fruit flies. I far prefer doing the fruit fly grind to having to go to a pet store and buy all kinds of other feeders. It's a hassle and I don't want any more temptations to add to my collection :)

Mark
P.S. I should have said that it maybe possible to do what you are suggesting (with the addition of good quality supplements) but I don't think it would end up being any savings in time, money, and energy. YMMV.
 

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Fruit fly cultures are the easiest and cheapest animal food I've worked with. They're low maintenance, don't take up space, and breed in huge numbers. I don't see any reason to go out of your way to avoid them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Mark! Thanks for the reply :)

Yes, I do plan on supplementing. I’ve already purchased Repashy Calcium Plus. I also got a low light UVB light (I know there are conflicting thoughts as to whether UVB is helpful but from what I’ve read it can’t hurt). Not sure if I should also supplement with Vitamin A monthly since I’m not breeding them, but it may be a good idea.

I’ll already be culturing 2-3 varieties of springs as CUC as well as 2 varieties of isos so it’s not any extra work. The flour beetles sound foolproof, just sift out the larvae every other week to feed. The Phoenix worms are a nice, healthy treat. Too much work to culture IMO esp since I don’t have a compost pile, but they’re supposed to be an amazing food source (high in calcium, no need to dust; high in protein; Laurie acid kills any bacteria in frog’s stomach). I’d buy those for the health of my frog.

Are there any downsides to using isos and springs versus FFs? They’d be properly dusted for each feeding. The benefit I see is twofold: less work for me since I’ll already be culturing them and any that “escape” during feeding time will help maintain the viv. The only downside I see is a boring diet, which is why I’ll add in beetles and Phoenix worms, and occasionally FFs. I’ve read wax worms are a nice, occasional treat (but fatty). I, too, did read termites are not great- fatty and hurts their kidneys. But I def won’t be culturing termites. Imagine if they got loose in the house! Lol

Other food sources I’ve considered and decided against: pinhead crickets seem like a pain to culture- grow large too quickly, smell, make noise, not nutritious unless gut-loaded. Most of them would get too large before I could feed them. I also have heard stories of bean beetles causing impaction in PDFs, leading to death so I’ve decided against raising those.

Most of my arguments against FFs nutritionally can be applied to springtails, too. It’s more the hassle of culturing them weekly. Am hoping I can get around that by using my CUC as a food source, along with flour beetle larvae and Phoenix worms. Lawn shrimp will also be part of my CUC. Any that end up being eaten may provide some vitamin A/beta carotene. When they die (usually due to desiccation), they turn red, leading people to believe there’s some vitamin A in their exoskeleton. If I can get the culture going, then these will also be part of their diet. I think that’s a good variety, but being new I figured I’d get input from you knowledgeable folks and defer to your experience ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If FF are really that easy to culture, I may do hydei. Since they take 3-4 weeks, that’s less work for me (?) and they’re “meatier” so the frogs will have to eat less to get the same amount of calories (compared to the melanogaster).

What are people’s thoughts about roaches as food and/or CUC? Roach Crossing sells a bunch. The Little Kenyan Roach adult size is 8-10mm (I could feed the roach babies) and they do well in warm, moist environments (temp 70-85) so if they escape during feeding, they can survive in the tank, aerating soil and eating waste.

I know I started the thread focusing on springs and isos, so I apologize for going off topic. I’m just very excited and trying to learn as much as I can
 

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If FF are really that easy to culture, I may do hydei. Since they take 3-4 weeks, that’s less work for me (?) and they’re “meatier” so the frogs will have to eat less to get the same amount of calories (compared to the melanogaster).

What are people’s thoughts about roaches as food and/or CUC? Roach Crossing sells a bunch. The Little Kenyan Roach adult size is 8-10mm (I could feed the roach babies) and they do well in warm, moist environments (temp 70-85) so if they escape during feeding, they can survive in the tank, aerating soil and eating waste.

I know I started the thread focusing on springs and isos, so I apologize for going off topic. I’m just very excited and trying to learn as much as I can
I use roaches (Dubias and Orange Heads) for reptiles . They escape, are expensive, and escape. Have I mentioned they escape? That whole 'this species doesn't climb' argument? No. Not true. Ever have a roach on your kitchen table? If you're married, and don't want to be, get some roaches.

A bit more seriously:

I think I've read that mels produce more biomass per culture than hydei. I've tried hydei, and none of my frogs or geckos ate them. I'm not sure the 'frogs have to eat less' thought really matters; the work of hunting is good for the frogs. Go to McDonalds and look around, then watch a video on the last of the hunter-gatherers, and you'll see.

FFs are super easy to culture. Takes 2 minutes a week. People use them because they are so easy.

I’m new to the hobby
That's cool. It is a really interesting hobby. It is really, really best to do things the established way, to 'stand on the shoulders of giants', until you get oriented. No need to reinvent the wheel. The hobby really does have things figured out to the point where things are simple and nearly guarantee success.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
LOL at roaches escaping! I def won’t be culturing them then.

Interesting that melanogasters have more biomass and that your frogs didn’t eat the hydei. Were the hydei too large (were your frogs froglets)? Or did they just not like the taste? It’s funny how much personality frogs can have!

Appreciate your input! I’m rethinking culturing FFs... but if it’s possible to use springs, isos, and lawn shrimp (all properly dusted, of course) as the primary food source, along with flour beetle larvae and Phoenix worms every other week, then I’d prefer to do that with wax worms as a monthly treat. Who knows, perhaps the frogs I get will dislike springs and isos and I’ll be forced to culture FFs! Frogs can be just like humans in their taste preferences :)
 

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Fruit flies are by far easier, and more reliable for feeding your frogs. There's a reason why they have come to be the standard feeder in the hobby, and that's because early hobbyists tried lots of things, much like what you're thinking of feeding, which ended up with a lot of sad results.

Vitamin A is not simply for breeding purposes. It is a staple supplement that your frogs require. Deformities in the offspring are a symptom of deficiencies in the parents, which I have read here in multiple threads.

Springtails cannot be dusted. They are extremely sensitive to desiccation, and would die very quickly when tumbled into a bit of powder. The only way I know to get springtails to have any increased calcium value is to use a calcium bearing substrate, which is labor intensive for the DIY option, and expensive to purchase pre-made. Trying to gutload isopods would be a challenge, since many can establish populations in the tank, and which would end up eating random things in the tank with unknown nutritional value for the frogs. It would not be possible to control what they ate, or whether the frogs primarily ate tank isopods that survived their initial feeding, or isopods freshly dumped into the tank. Isopods also don't reproduce nearly as uniformly as fruit flies. Waxworms are way too big for most dart frogs.

While hydei are larger, they are also harder to culture. Culturing flies may sound intimidating, but you can practice culturing them long before you even get frogs, so you can get good at it, and feel confident about the process. If you can find a local frogger to show you how they do it, or at least watch AND READ a tutorial, you'll probably find it easy. I mean, fruit flies will overwhelm your house if you lose a hand of bananas in the basement somewhere (oops) with no effort on your part whatsoever, so giving them food on purpose? They will hardly be able to contain their gametes!
 

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Interesting that melanogasters have more biomass and that your frogs didn’t eat the hydei. Were the hydei too large (were your frogs froglets)? Or did they just not like the taste? It’s funny how much personality frogs can have!
I'm not sure what the issue was with hydei. They might have been too large for imitators. Leucomelas didn't take them, either, nor did mourning geckos; likely simply an unfamiliar food source for these two. I didn't try withholding other foods in order to convert them to hydei, since that wasn't my aim.

+1 on everything Woodswalker said above about the problems with these alternate prey items. Those are lots of strong reasons (there are likely others, too, some having to do with the extreme challenge of trying to cultivate enough isos and springs to feed even a couple frogs -- these guys simply don't reproduce quickly enough to be a viable staple) for why FFs are the sine qua non of dart frog keeping.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Vitamin A is not simply for breeding purposes. It is a staple supplement that your frogs require. Deformities in the offspring are a symptom of deficiencies in the parents, which I have read here in multiple threads.
Good to know! This is why I love this site and all the knowledge other hobbyists can provide. How often should I supplement with Vitamin A (Repashy)? Monthly? It’s fat soluble, so it can be fatal if doing it too frequently. Along that note, how frequently should flies be dusted? Some say every feeding, others say every other feeding. Some people feed every day, others 3x per week. Juveniles should be fed every day, adults can be fed every other day. Is this correct? I’ve read multiple schools of thought and watched other hobbyists on YouTube. Every one does things a bit differently. Would love to hear your thoughts on supplementation. FYI: I plan on using UVB lighting since it helps with vitamin D synthesis and calcium uptake.

Springtails cannot be dusted. They are extremely sensitive to desiccation, and would die very quickly when tumbled into a bit of powder.[/QOUTE]
I didn’t realize springs can’t be dusted. Makes sense. Thank you for enlightening me!

The only way I know to get springtails to have any increased calcium value is to use a calcium bearing substrate, which is labor intensive for the DIY option, and expensive to purchase pre-made. Trying to gutload isopods would be a challenge, since many can establish populations in the tank, and which would end up eating random things in the tank with unknown nutritional value for the frogs. It would not be possible to control what they ate, or whether the frogs primarily ate tank isopods that survived their initial feeding, or isopods freshly dumped into the tank. Isopods also don't reproduce nearly as uniformly as fruit flies. Waxworms are way too big for most dart frogs.[/QOUTE]
I actually read all the (ridic) long threads on clay substrates and made my own so the substrates within the tanks will have some calcium. Not sure how much calcium will then be transferred when a frog eats a rouge iso/spring. It’s probably a minute amount of calcium, but I figured I’d make the enclosure as nutritious for them as possible. People reported plants were thriving on the clay substrates so I figured I might as well try it out. Outside the tanks, the springs and isos are also going to be raised on calcium/clay-aggregated substrate.

WRT gut-loading isos, people culture them and feed them veggies, repashy bug burger/morning wood, and cuttlebone. I’d be culturing 5 species of springs, 5 species of isos, and lawn shrimp all outside the tank. I plan on “gut loading” them by feeding nutritious foods, fresh veggies, bakers yeast/mushrooms for springs, spirulina, peas, etc. I’d read some species of isos are more calcium rich since they have a harder shell? Either way, they’d be raised in a calcium-rich substrate, fed calcium-rich veggies, given cuttlebone, and if escaped within the tank, they’d be in a clay/calcium substrate. And the lawn shrimp have some vitamin A... while they also cannot be dusted due to desiccation, how often should I supplement with vitamin A if there is an alternate, although small, source?

While hydei are larger, they are also harder to culture. Culturing flies may sound intimidating, but you can practice culturing them long before you even get frogs, so you can get good at it, and feel confident about the process. If you can find a local frogger to show you how they do it, or at least watch AND READ a tutorial, you'll probably find it easy.
I actually have read and watched a ton of youtubers (not reliable sources), but some seemed to only feed springs and isos, with occaisonal treats like wax worms, etc. since most hobbyists culture FFs, I was wondering why that was chose over the former. Now I know. From what I read and watched, it sounds like you need to have backup cultures since they can be overtaken by mites or just busy (esp in the case of hydei). I plan on putting all my cultures (containers) on mite paper and surround them with diatomaceous earth for good measure. Since the FF cultures seemed very time-intensive (min 1 culture made per week), I wondered if there could be alternate ways to feed PDFs... but it seems the consensus is that I’d have to culture FF.

I mean, fruit flies will overwhelm your house if you lose a hand of bananas in the basement somewhere (oops) with no effort on your part whatsoever, so giving them food on purpose? They will hardly be able to contain their gametes!
Haha very true! Luckily I have carnivorous plants which are living fly paper!! I highly suggest getting some. They’re beautiful to look at and useful! I have multiple pitcher plants, butterworts, and sundews. Just super cool

Thanks for all this info! I’ve read tons of archived posts and have been planning for months. I really want to make sure I do this right and appreciate all the insight members can provide.

Happy Thanksgiving!!
 

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It really is simple to culture melanogaster. I don’t do them every week. A mite less culture can produce for two month or so.

I’m doing lower volume of media so I can do restart cultures more frequently. I have got rid of my mite problem within a generation. I’ve had frogs and reptiles most my life and usually had the cricket or pinkey route. The ff path is much nicer.
 

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Haha very true! Luckily I have carnivorous plants which are living fly paper!! I highly suggest getting some. They’re beautiful to look at and useful! I have multiple pitcher plants, butterworts, and sundews. Just super cool
Do you have pics of your plants that you can post? I've often thought of getting some.
 

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It sounds like you're off to a good start. That you're asking all these things BEFORE getting frogs is fantastic. You sound very meticulous.

As for vitamin A, I personally do it once every other week, so that's two or three times each month.

Feeding juveniles every day and adults three times a week is a good practice. When you feed frequently, it's best to give smaller meals to avoid obesity. A lot of hobbyists like to give a number of flies to feed as a general rule of thumb. I don't like counting tiny, wiggling things, and find it easier to say to give volumetric quantities. So, as a ballpark estimate, I give about a quarter teaspoon to my solo auratus (smallest population) every other day or so, and to my group of six (largest pop.), I give about 1-2 teaspoons of flies 2-4 times each week, depending on how the days fall, and whether or not I'm home to feed them, or how many flies are still left in the tank. I also cut back a bit when they start looking a little less muscular, and more undefined. This isn't necessarily a prescription for how it must be done; it's just my schedule for consideration as a single data point in the broader set of practices in the hobby.

Most dart frogs tend to eat pretty small prey, some larger phyllobates being obvious exceptions. It would be the baby isopods that they would be eating, and they're harder to catch in large numbers. I think it's great that you plan to gutload them and raise them with the goal of increased calcium content. I do wonder, though, how much of the calcium in their shells will actually be bio-available to the frogs. That's not something I've ever been able to discern. Young isos more likely have thinner shells, too. Isopods will make a nice supplemental feeder, just like the lawn shrimp and the springtails, so it's really great that you're going to be using them to add variety.
 

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What are people’s thoughts about roaches as food and/or CUC? Roach Crossing sells a bunch. The Little Kenyan Roach adult size is 8-10mm (I could feed the roach babies) and they do well in warm, moist environments (temp 70-85) so if they escape during feeding, they can survive in the tank, aerating soil and eating waste.
There are more than 4000 cochroach species on our planet. Just a handful of them is viewed as pests. The moste expensive pet cochroach is retailing at 500 usd a pair. It speaks for itself, cannot be a pest :).

I have a culture of Kenyan roaches to culture for food and cleaners. They really need it hot and humid to survive and they like to stay burried in the substrate. Only the adult males can climb glass, and they are to big to escape a normal tank. I am not sure, but most likelly they live and reproduce in the tank.

After my whife order I have a feromonal cochroach trap close to the tank. I Switch it 4 times a year after recomendations. So far after 1 year there havent been one single escape. However, if they do escape they will not survive long outside the tank where I am living. The air is to dry.

That beeing said. The kenyan roaches is very slow at reproducing so they are far from a good solution as staple food. FFs is still the best staple food.

Culturing a lot of small critters for food is also a fun side of the hobby (at least if you are like me :)). And varied diet is the best. I keep 8 different species for food. Summertime I go outside and collect food as well.

BR
Magnus
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I have a culture of Kenyan roaches to culture for food and cleaners. They really need it hot and humid to survive and they like to stay burried in the substrate. Only the adult males can climb glass, and they are to big to escape a normal tank.
do kenyan roaches escape? i know you mentioned they need it hot/humid, otherwise they die, but they are roaches and those things can survive an apocalypse! lol do you think they're good as CUC? will they bother the PDFs?


Culturing a lot of small critters for food is also a fun side of the hobby (at least if you are like me :)). And varied diet is the best. I keep 8 different species for food.
can you share what 8 species you culture for food? i def want to provide my frogs a varied diet so they're happy. but don't want it to be too time consuming. any pointers? appreciate any insight you can provide!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It sounds like you're off to a good start. That you're asking all these things BEFORE getting frogs is fantastic. You sound very meticulous.

As for vitamin A, I personally do it once every other week, so that's two or three times each month.
Thanks! I like to do my research beforehand. Sometimes I think I enjoy the research bit just as much as the execution! That being said, I may have been a bit impulsive and saw a great Black Friday deal and got 2 azureus from Petco. They looked like they're buddies. The store associate said they'd been there at least 2 months, but couldn't tell me their sex or age. They're about a half inch, maybe 3/4 inch long. I assume pet stores don't sell frogs until they're about 4-6 months old. That would make my frogs approx 6-8mo old?

I quarantined them a couple days, but they didn't seem happy in the QT tank (and they seemed a bit stressed) so I put them in a 20 gallon high that's planted. They seem MUCH happier here, but the downside is that it is quite large for them and more difficult for them to get their food. I *am* feeding them FFs I got from Petco. Should I be dusting the FFs every feeding? Some articles I read said to dust every other feeding, esp if feeding juveniles. I also read that juveniles should be fed 2x a day, every day until adult size. While I don't want my frogs to be obese, it seems the general consensus is that a plump frog is a healthy frog (so long as it's not bloated). Some sites say to feed enough flies that they'll eat in 30min. Otherwise it stresses them?

And before I get any flak about not QTing the frogs longer, I am monitoring their poop, getting it tested, and making sure they both have opportunities to eat (one is more shy than the other so it doesn't come out to feed as much). Josh's Frog had an article about how they don't recommend QTing (https://joshsfrogs.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201198407-Do-I-need-to-quarantine-my-frogs-) so after seeing how sad they looked (even though there was a live pothos and some coco huts and moss), I thought it best to put them in their forever home. They seem much more active and happier.

Since I'm on the FF bandwagon now, does anyone have a FF media recipe? I know a lot of people make their own or use Repashy's mix. Some recipes include instant potatoes, nutritional and brewer's yeast, spirulina, beet root powder, paprika, cinnamon, powdered sugar, flaxseed, and ground banana chips. Do people use coffee filters or excelsior? Where do you buy the deli cups with fabric/vented lids? Are these one-time use only, or can they be washed, sterilized, and re-used?




Feeding juveniles every day and adults three times a week is a good practice. When you feed frequently, it's best to give smaller meals to avoid obesity. A lot of hobbyists like to give a number of flies to feed as a general rule of thumb. I don't like counting tiny, wiggling things, and find it easier to say to give volumetric quantities. So, as a ballpark estimate, I give about a quarter teaspoon to my solo auratus (smallest population) every other day or so, and to my group of six (largest pop.), I give about 1-2 teaspoons of flies 2-4 times each week, depending on how the days fall, and whether or not I'm home to feed them, or how many flies are still left in the tank. I also cut back a bit when they start looking a little less muscular, and more undefined. This isn't necessarily a prescription for how it must be done; it's just my schedule for consideration as a single data point in the broader set of practices in the hobby.
Thank you for this! I've been feeding my new froggies 2x a day (one is more timid and doesn't come out until later in the day) to ensure both get a chance to eat. I don't feed too many flies, but I have dusted with Repashy Calcium Plus each time. Since the FF have a tendency to escape quickly (even with a feeding station primed with some fruit!) the calcium wears off the escapees due to the high humidity. But I guess I'll stagger my calcium dusting. I'll go to a reptile store and see if they have the Repashy Vitamin A supplement. I haven't been able to find it at any Petco and Petsmart stores near me. I've been to 8 diff stores! lol I may just buy on Amazon. NEHERP said to only dust Vit A every 2 months for juveniles, monthly for adults.

Not sure if I should make a new thread, but does anyone have any advice on how to contain FFs? They seem to have a habit of crawling up. I really don't want them to escape. Would appreciate any tips on FFs.... I currently keep them at room temp in the bathroom since it's easy to see any escapees. I can't believe I'm raising FFs since I hate seeing them in the house where I keep my bananas - which is why I purchased my carnivorous plants! lol

Thanks everyone who chimed in. Appreciate all the advice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Do you have pics of your plants that you can post? I've often thought of getting some.
Not sure how to post pix? I'm new to the site and still learning.

Check out Predatory Plants. I went to their brick and mortar store, but they ship everywhere! They are currently having a Black Friday Sale (30% off): https://predatoryplants.com/

I think California Carnivores is another great site. You can even purchase carnivorous plants on Amazon and even at local nurseries and Lowes/Home Depot. People online say they've had success finding butterworts at Lowes, but I've only seen pitcher plants and venus fly traps there. My Home Depot had a sundew, likely a capensis, in the indoor plant section. They were labeled "octopus plant" and were next to the venus fly traps. So if you don't want to pay for shipping and don't care what variety you get, it doesn't hurt to check your local home improvement stores and get one for $7. They have similar care requirements as PDFs (prefer warmer, humid climates, need RO water) so they're perfect for keeping in a viv. Not sure about the sticky enzyme stuff, but I have seen frogs co-existing with pitcher plants at Sarrecenia Northwest (they have an instagram and youtube page). A lot of times the frogs will sit inside the pitcher and wait for the bugs which are drawn to the pitcher plant, stealing the plant's food! lol

There are tons of sundew varieties! I was planning to plant my butterworts and sundews in the viv with my frogs but decided against it as I don't know if the sticky enzymes will hurt the frogs. I will put my nepenthes in there (pitcher plants).

Just keep in mind that sundews like bog (standing water) and slightly acidic, nutrient-deficient soil, while butterworts prefer well-draining and slightly basic, nutrient-deficient soil. Pitcher plants like well-draining and slightly acidic medium (sphagnum moss is great). If you can raise a dart frog, you can def keep carnivorous plants!
 

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I was interested in pics of yours since I wanted to see how you were growing them out of a viv. Humidity here is a problem.

This is all a bit tangential to the thread, so no worries for no pics. And, thanks for the links!
 

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Since I'm on the FF bandwagon now, does anyone have a FF media recipe? I know a lot of people make their own or use Repashy's mix. Some recipes include instant potatoes, nutritional and brewer's yeast, spirulina, beet root powder, paprika, cinnamon, powdered sugar, flaxseed, and ground banana chips. Do people use coffee filters or excelsior? Where do you buy the deli cups with fabric/vented lids? Are these one-time use only, or can they be washed, sterilized, and re-used?

I recommend NEHERP FF media. It's ridiculously easy to use (no mixing!), and I spend 5 minutes a week on making FFs. I have used other media, but for me NEHERP requires the least amount of work. I haven't noticed a difference in productivity between different media, and I haven't had any problems with cultures crashing when using purchased media. You can get the cups, and lids, and excelsior, at NEHERP, and Joshsfrogs sells them too.
 

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A couple things I didn't see mentioned, although they may have been, I perused pretty quickly... Some frogs won't eat spring tails. Once my P. terribilis got some size on they wouldn't touch the spring tails. They occasionally go after an isopod or two. Also, and maybe others have had different luck with this, the drilled top fruit fly cups crashed quickly when I tried them. The cloth top work out just fine. I'm not sure if the larvae are blocking the holes and cutting off air, or maybe they just dry out quicker, but the drilled tops crashed after a week or two. Again, maybe under someone else's conditions they've worked, but not for me. There are lots of good recipes for culture medium out there. I just buy repashy superfly twice a year, since I'm a bit lazy. I have heard of good results with the home made stuff. Some theoretically better than the premade. Hell, try both, and melanogaster and hydro. You have time to experiment. Good luck!
 
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