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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I’m currently setting up a 44 gallon aquarium for dart frogs and mourning geckos. I have the dart frogs as tadpoles and the mourning geckos in they’re own enclosure. I was wondering if I could have the froglets live in the 44 gallon (it’s gonna have a waterfall, with a shallow pond) or I should put them in a tub, deli cups, or a smaller enclosure (maybe the mourning gecko tank? They’re still baby geckos). Once the tank is done I’ll definitely share it.
 

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Hello,

This whole setup sounds problematic to me.

A 44 gallon aquarium will be difficult to ventilate properly.

Despite what you see on YouTube and sellers' websites, dart frogs and mourning geckos are not great cohabitators. They do not have the same care requirements, and can, and will, have negative interactions with each other.

Your best bet is to keep each species in its own enclosure.

(it’s gonna have a waterfall, with a shallow pond)
Water falls and ponds may sound awesome, and look great on YouTube, but in practicality they are removing usable land space from the frogs, space the frogs would use to be frogs.

Dendrobates tinctorius do not care for their tadpoles, they will deposit them and leave them to fend for themselves. In your planned setup I suspect they'll drop them in the pond where they will get sucked into the intake for the waterfall and die.
 

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I second what Thatfishingguy wrote. A mixed species enclosure should only be attempted if you are fully aware of the inherent risks, you are an expert at keeping each species, and you are ready go back to only one species in the enclosure if things are not working perfectly.

Waterfalls suck. They never work. Well, they only work for a while before algae builds up, plant material gets in there, or what ever unexpected thing happens and the water that was supposed to be in the waterfall is in your substrate. Plus, the frogs don't use them so they are eating up space.
 

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I agree with both the previous posts. They're not best kept like darts (at the very least, MGs should have a generously sized hot spot for basking). When kept right, they're quite scrappy and I wouldn't inflict that behavior on darts.

Advice from experience: keep MGs for a few generations before deciding whether they're worth committing to. You'll either figure out that they're miserable, or you'll be a member of a fairly exclusive club.

Once they go into any viv, and start laying eggs, pretty much the only way to get them out is with a complete teardown, so best not to trash a nice viv until you're certain of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Hmm… I can see why the waterfall is a bad idea, but I’ve seen so many people cohab these animals super well, and they’re would be so much wasted space in the upper levels of the tank. I guess I could see risks involved, but I’m too deep into the waterfall and cohabitation, unless you think I can keep all of the MG’s in a ten gallon. I spent a lot of time planning, building, and doing research and I don’t want it to go to waste. +money
My Dad would also think all my info can’t be trusted even though I’ve tried so hard to find info on whatever I’m doing.
I do have questions though, what risks are involved? How could I not have algae build up? And my orginal question, can the froglets live in they’re permanent enclosure or should I let them grow up in like a tub or bin, or deli cups. I don’t have a separate enclosure for them to grow up in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hmm… I feel like I’ve seen way too many YouTubers and companies do things like this. I’ve also seen very small channels or people in discord servers doing it very well. I’ve done extensive research and watched videos of people who have kept these animals for years. I can see why the pond and waterfall can be a bad idea but I really don’t want to tell my dad I have to get rid of a pump and tube we bought. And tell him we can’t keep the mourning geckos in it. And also tell him basically all the research I’ve done hasn’t paid off at all. If this is coming of mean I’m not trying to, it’s just so annoying and stressful when I do all this research and buy things and spend money for it to be wasted. I know this happens sometimes but I think I’m just going to do it anyways cuz I don’t want do flush all this stuff down the drain. And make my dad think all my information can’t be trusted. Thanks for the advice, but I’ve seen way to many people cohab as well as multiple expert/longtime keepers. Obviously you can’t and shouldn’t just trust everyone and everything you hear or read (always do you’re own research). I trust you’re info its just that I’m too deep into this and there’s no way to back out without stressing me and my dad out.
I’m sorry if that sounded really rude I’m not trying to it’s just stressful.
Ps the geckos are going to be feeders cuz my snake loves live feeders and I do it very carefully without him getting hurt. It’s sad and could be dangerous but this snake is pretty picky.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hmm… I feel like I’ve seen way too many YouTubers and companies do things like this. I’ve also seen very small channels or people in discord servers doing it very well. I’ve done extensive research and watched videos of people who have kept these animals for years. I can see why the pond and waterfall can be a bad idea but I really don’t want to tell my dad I have to get rid of a pump and tube we bought. And tell him we can’t keep the mourning geckos in it. And also tell him basically all the research I’ve done hasn’t paid off at all. If this is coming of mean I’m not trying to, it’s just so annoying and stressful when I do all this research and buy things and spend money for it to be wasted. I know this happens sometimes but I think I’m just going to do it anyways cuz I don’t want do flush all this stuff down the drain. And make my dad think all my information can’t be trusted. Thanks for the advice, but I’ve seen way to many people cohab as well as multiple expert/longtime keepers. Obviously you can’t and shouldn’t just trust everyone and everything you hear or read (always do you’re own research). I trust you’re info its just that I’m too deep into this and there’s no way to back out without stressing me and my dad out.
I’m sorry if that sounded really rude I’m not trying to it’s just stressful.
Ps the geckos are going to be feeders cuz my snake loves live feeders and I do it very carefully with him getting hurt. It’s sad but this snake is pretty picky.
Might give you an Idea on how fast they reproduce https://www.dendroboard.com/threads...w-did-i-do-now-with-eggs.363508/#post-3159690.
What kind of snake is it? there may be alternatives that could be worth trying. Reptilinks seem pretty cool.
it’s an African green bush snake. From what I’ve found it’s not a very common snake. Right now I have feeder anoles and if I ever run out of lizards I can feed it frozen pinkies.
 

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I feel like I’ve seen way too many YouTubers and companies do things like this. I’ve also seen very small channels or people in discord servers doing it very well
By and large YouTube is for entertainment. There are some channels that provide good information on what ever subject. But, mostly it is a battle for clicks and people say whatever it not a total lie to get them. You have to be a very discerning consumer of information.

I don’t want do flush all this stuff down the drain. And make my dad think all my information can’t be trusted
Pumps are cheap. Your father is an adult. He presumably knows life is complicated and messy. Sometimes you think one things and are wrong. It's no big deal. Learning to own up to it and admit it is a big deal.

We are keeping animals in a glass box in our houses for our enjoyment. We owe it to those animals to keep them it the best way we can.
 

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they’re would be so much wasted space in the upper levels of the tank
No there won't. Even my largest frogs use every square inch of the tank; my Phyllobates terribilis have used every available space in their 36x18x36" terrarium, including the very, very top. Scouting for food.
what risks are involved?
Frogs eating geckos and gecko babies, geckos harassing frogs, all the animals getting stressed out and sick.
And my orginal question, can the froglets live in they’re permanent enclosure or should I let them grow up in like a tub or bin, or deli cups. I don’t have a separate enclosure for them to grow up in
This was Already answered. Tinctorius do not raise their young. You'll have to pull the tadpoles and raise them yourself. I wouldn't keep a froglet tinctorius in with adults. Too much competition for food.
 

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And my orginal question, can the froglets live in they’re permanent enclosure or should I let them grow up in like a tub or bin, or deli cups. I don’t have a separate enclosure for them to grow up in.
When the tads morph, many keepers prefer to keep them in a smaller growout bin/viv until they are a little older. If you have an overly complicated viv (water features constitute 'overly complicated' by definition: that which has viv design elements not necessary or beneficial for the ideal care of the animal) still in construction, I wouldn't presume that either (a) it'll be ready before the tads morph, nor (b) that newly morphed froglets would be good test animals for the suitability of the viv.

. Right now I have feeder anoles and if I ever run out of lizards I can feed it frozen pinkies.
Feeding live prey that has been cohabited with another taxon (MGs with darts) is a remarkably sloppy husbandry practice. That gives yet another avenue for pathogen transfer (on top of WC anoles, something I wouldn't let into my reptile room let alone feed to anything).

Bigger picture stuff, which upsets some people to even think about: it may be worthwhile to stop and think about what the goal is with the projects. If the goal is to use a handful of not-really-simple-to-keep animal species to be the stars in one's own conception of some sort of complex circle of life skit that comes from YouTube/Amazon Affiliate clickbait or vendor's attempt to make things sound more simple and fun than they really are, then what you're suggesting makes sense.

If, on the other hand, the goals are to...
  • (1) carefully choose animal species that one has a distinct interest in keeping for their own interesting features (e.g. not because they'll make good snake food, or because YouTube said they should be housed together), and
  • (2) keep each species as well as is possible/practical, and
    • (2a) learn the care of one species before taking on the care of another species
    • (2b) get a baseline knowledge of a species before introducing additional variables that aren't in the interests of the animals kept (such as cohabitation)
  • (3) use one's ongoing experience to help become a better student of herpetoculture by figuring out which sources of information have been accurate in the past to judge which sources of information to focus on in the future
...then perhaps a rethinking is in order. If this comes off as insulting or condescending or similar, then something has been lost in translation. If, like any friendly advice, it isn't something you're willing to take on board, then simply let it lie -- it may be useful to future readers of this thread, or to a version of a person that they haven't yet become. :)
 

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Darts need cooler temps than mourning geckos. Having kept these geckos myself, they are not as straightforward as YouTube etc make them out to be. They need inverts for a start. You cannot sustain them on powdered gecko food exclusively. And the inverts they need as adults are likely to pose a risk to darts.
They need UV (which darts don't need). They do need a fairly high basking temperature - and no, room temperature is not enough. All reptiles need a basking spot higher than their surroundings,which darts don't. Properly kept, these are a boisterous, very active gecko that are as much at home on the floor as they are high up.
All in all, they are not suitable for a mixed species enclosure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
By and large YouTube is for entertainment. There are some channels that provide good information on what ever subject. But, mostly it is a battle for clicks and people say whatever it not a total lie to get them. You have to be a very discerning consumer of information.



Pumps are cheap. Your father is an adult. He presumably knows life is complicated and messy. Sometimes you think one things and are wrong. It's no big deal. Learning to own up to it and admit it is a big deal.

We are keeping animals in a glass box in our houses for our enjoyment. We owe it to those animals to keep them it the best way we can.
When the tads morph, many keepers prefer to keep them in a smaller growout bin/viv until they are a little older. If you have an overly complicated viv (water features constitute 'overly complicated' by definition: that which has viv design elements not necessary or beneficial for the ideal care of the animal) still in construction, I wouldn't presume that either (a) it'll be ready before the tads morph, nor (b) that newly morphed froglets would be good test animals for the suitability of the viv.



Feeding live prey that has been cohabited with another taxon (MGs with darts) is a remarkably sloppy husbandry practice. That gives yet another avenue for pathogen transfer (on top of WC anoles, something I wouldn't let into my reptile room let alone feed to anything).

Bigger picture stuff, which upsets some people to even think about: it may be worthwhile to stop and think about what the goal is with the projects. If the goal is to use a handful of not-really-simple-to-keep animal species to be the stars in one's own conception of some sort of complex circle of life skit that comes from YouTube/Amazon Affiliate clickbait or vendor's attempt to make things sound more simple and fun than they really are, then what you're suggesting makes sense.

If, on the other hand, the goals are to...
  • (1) carefully choose animal species that one has a distinct interest in keeping for their own interesting features (e.g. not because they'll make good snake food, or because YouTube said they should be housed together), and
  • (2) keep each species as well as is possible/practical, and
    • (2a) learn the care of one species before taking on the care of another species
    • (2b) get a baseline knowledge of a species before introducing additional variables that aren't in the interests of the animals kept (such as cohabitation)
  • (3) use one's ongoing experience to help become a better student of herpetoculture by figuring out which sources of information have been accurate in the past to judge which sources of information to focus on in the future
...then perhaps a rethinking is in order. If this comes off as insulting or condescending or similar, then something has been lost in translation. If, like any friendly advice, it isn't something you're willing to take on board, then simply let it lie -- it may be useful to future readers of this thread, or to a version of a person that they haven't yet become. :)
I will not house the MG's with the darts. I understand most youtubers just want clicks and lie, but some are very knowledgeable. Also, the anoles are not WC. I'm still considering the waterfall, I want what's best, but sometimes experimenting is good. I'm going to keep it shallow and small, plus it adds humidity. And I'm sure the frogs might soak in the pond if they want too. I've already wasted too much, but I learned from it. I'm also not trying to sound rude, and if it came of rude I'm sorry. Thanks for the advice though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
No there won't. Even my largest frogs use every square inch of the tank; my Phyllobates terribilis have used every available space in their 36x18x36" terrarium, including the very, very top. Scouting for food.

Frogs eating geckos and gecko babies, geckos harassing frogs, all the animals getting stressed out and sick.

This was Already answered. Tinctorius do not raise their young. You'll have to pull the tadpoles and raise them yourself. I wouldn't keep a froglet tinctorius in with adults. Too much competition for food.
Sorry I wasn't very clear, let me rephrase the question. I have tadpoles right now that I ordered from josh's frogs, and I'm wondering if I can let them grow up in the 44-gallon tank when they're froglets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Darts need cooler temps than mourning geckos. Having kept these geckos myself, they are not as straightforward as YouTube etc make them out to be. They need inverts for a start. You cannot sustain them on powdered gecko food exclusively. And the inverts they need as adults are likely to pose a risk to darts.
They need UV (which darts don't need). They do need a fairly high basking temperature - and no, room temperature is not enough. All reptiles need a basking spot higher than their surroundings,which darts don't. Properly kept, these are a boisterous, very active gecko that are as much at home on the floor as they are high up.
All in all, they are not suitable for a mixed species enclosure.
I was confused when people said you can cohab them because I read MG's are actually temperate and darts are tropical. I'll house them separately.
 
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