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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
You need to seed the vivarium with isopods, springtails, bacteria and fungi.

So is it ok to ask a friend a bit of old substrate in their vivarium to seed yours ?
 

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It’s not really the same as seeding an aquarium by adding a bit of someone else’s filter and gaining their beneficial bacteria. Whilst you could ask a friend, I would advise against this as you could also be transferring any disease or infection that you friend may unknowingly have in his tank into your new tank. I think it would be much easier to purchase the isopods/springtails you need from a store, and you would get a lot more that way too
 

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It’s not really the same as seeding an aquarium by adding a bit of someone else’s filter and gaining their beneficial bacteria. Whilst you could ask a friend, I would advise against this as you could also be transferring any disease or infection that you friend may unknowingly have in his tank into your new tank. I think it would be much easier to purchase the isopods/springtails you need from a store, and you would get a lot more that way too
I agree with this^^^

Unless you are purchasing the frogs that are in the tank with the tank with the substrate that you'd get from your friend then I would not use substrate from your friend's tank.

Most of us do our very best to avoid transferring materials from one tank to another even within our own collections to minimize the risk that a pathogen gets transferred from one tank, where the frogs might not be affected, to another where the frogs might be affected. For example, I wash my pruning shears after each tank that I use them in.
 

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The only things that a person would seed with are springtails and, if you want them, isopods. Bacteria and saprophytic fungi are ubiquitous, and don't need to be specially added (though some businesses make money convincing you otherwise ;)).

I would not personally ever transfer used substrate from outside my reptile room into it, especially not from an animal enclosure (as mentioned, it isn't like an aquarium, not that aquarium keepers should be engaging in such outdated practices anymore either). There is absolutely zero benefit, and there are many pathogens/pests that would be very likely to come in. I won't (and no reasonably prudent keeper should) even bring in insufficiently treated materials from outside.

The two vivs I ever had pests in were the two vivs into which I moved untreated houseplants from outside (I summer some plants on my deck).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The only things that a person would seed with are springtails and, if you want them, isopods. Bacteria and saprophytic fungi are ubiquitous, and don't need to be specially added (though some businesses make money convincing you otherwise ;)).

I would not personally ever transfer used substrate from outside my reptile room into it, especially not from an animal enclosure (as mentioned, it isn't like an aquarium, not that aquarium keepers should be engaging in such outdated practices anymore either). There is absolutely zero benefit, and there are many pathogens/pests that would be very likely to come in. I won't (and no reasonably prudent keeper should) even bring in insufficiently treated materials from outside.

The two vivs I ever had pests in were the two vivs into which I moved untreated houseplants from outside (I summer some plants on my deck).
So you don't even need isopods? Only springtails and that's it? I mean, it kinda makes sense why would you want organisms to break down your decor even faster...

What is the argument for isopods if there's any?
 

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So you don't even need isopods? Only springtails and that's it? I mean, it kinda makes sense why would you want organisms to break down your decor even faster...

What is the argument for isopods if there's any?
They consume/breakdown the frog waste into good for the plants.
 

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Same as springtails no? I am at least that's what I'm told, which species of isopods would you recommend to leave with a trio of Leucs?
Springtails can and usually will get eaten by your frogs, so sometimes people keep larger isopods to keep a more stable population.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Springtails can and usually will get eaten by your frogs, so sometimes people keep larger isopods to keep a more stable population.
I see so the isopods are CUC only don't double as food

which species of isopods would you recommend to leave with a trio of Leucs?
 

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I see so the isopods are CUC only don't double as food
Isopods and springtails are both 'clean up crew' and both may get eaten by the frogs. One reason I called springs but not isopods neccesary is that springtails are a necessary food source for at least some captive frog species (newly morphed thumbnails, for example), and are eagerly eaten by many species of adult frogs.

Isopods have their uses, too, but -- and this is really splitting hairs -- springtails fill those niches more effectively, more simply, and with absolutely no risk of collateral damage to plants and substrate materials. If a person wanted to go full "KISS" ('keep it short and simple'), isopods can do it all.
 
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I see so the isopods are CUC only don't double as food

which species of isopods would you recommend to leave with a trio of Leucs?
Well, I should have prefaced that larger frogs can still eat the isopods!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Isopods and springtails are both 'clean up crew' and both may get eaten by the frogs. One reason I called springs but not isopods neccesary is that springtails are a necessary food source for at least some captive frog species (newly morphed thumbnails, for example), and are eagerly eaten by many species of adult frogs.

Isopods have their uses, too, but -- and this is really splitting hairs -- springtails fill those niches more effectively, more simply, and with absolutely no risk of collateral damage to plants and substrate materials. If a person wanted to go full "KISS" ('keep it short and simple'), isopods can do it all.
So if I had to spend in just one would be buying a colony of springs or isopods? I am not sure if in the end you said the KISS would be that Isopods can or can't do it all
I definitely want to keep it very simple!
 

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So if I had to spend in just one would be buying a colony of springs or isopods? I am not sure if in the end you said the KISS would be that Isopods can or can't do it all
I definitely want to keep it very simple!
Neither are particularly expensive - springtails are around 3 euros for a colony and Tropical white woodlice (Trichorhina tomentosa) are around 5 euros - so why restrict yourself to one?


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If they can catch them before they dig under the substrate!
It's unlikely that they get all of them, but I've observed P. terribilis actively foraging under leaf litter where they know the isopods are hiding, and successfully capture them under there. If they're well fed they won't bother, but when they're peckish they can hear them and begin digging and diving.
 
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